Subject: Fwd: I-D Action:draft-duerst-iana-namespace-00.txt

From: Martin Duerst <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2008 20:39:31 +0900

Based on some earlier discussion on this list and some encouragement
by Chris, Tim Bray and myself wrote a proposal for HTTP namespace
URI registration with IANA. Comments appreciated.

Regards,   Martin.

>To: [email-masked]
>From: [email-masked]
>Subject: I-D Action:draft-duerst-iana-namespace-00.txt 
>Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2008 03:30:01 -0800 (PST)

>A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
>
>       Title           : HTTP-based IETF Namespace URIs at IANA
>       Author(s)       : M. Duerst, T. Bray
>       Filename        : draft-duerst-iana-namespace-00.txt
>       Pages           : 8
>       Date            : 2008-02-18
>
>This document creates a registry and defines a procedure to allow
>IETF specifications to register XML Namespace Names with IANA which
>are HTTP URIs and thus potentially useful for looking up information
>about the namespace.
>
>A URL for this Internet-Draft is:
>http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-duerst-iana-namespace-00.txt
>
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#-#-#  Martin J. Du"rst, Assoc. Professor, Aoyama Gakuin University
#-#-#  http://www.sw.it.aoyama.ac.jp       mailto:[email-masked]

---

From: Lisa Dusseault <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2008 10:09:23 -0800

Hi,

I'm adding IANA and Thomas Narten (author of IANA considerations  
docs) to this thread to get early IANA feedback about this idea.  It  
may well be a good idea, but we definitely want to think it through:

  - A registry for HTTP URLs in the IANA domain
    ... including a HTML or XML document hosted by IANA on its  
Website at the location specified in the registered URL
   ... which means that end-users and developers will use these URIs,  
perhaps very frequently

What do we know about the W3 experience hosting namespace URIs with  
actual documents at the URIs?  I've been hearing rumours lately about  
something like this causing expensive levels of traffic, but I can't  
recall the details.

Lisa

Begin forwarded message:

> From: Martin Duerst <[email-masked]>
> Date: February 18, 2008 3:39:31 AM PST
> To: [email-masked]
> Subject: Fwd: I-D Action:draft-duerst-iana-namespace-00.txt
>

---

From: "Tim Bray" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2008 10:18:16 -0800

On Feb 18, 2008 10:09 AM, Lisa Dusseault <[email-masked]> wrote:

> What do we know about the W3 experience hosting namespace URIs with actual
> documents at the URIs?  I've been hearing rumours lately about something
> like this causing expensive levels of traffic, but I can't recall the
> details.

Yeah, it's true and it's potentially a problem.  In the case of the
W3C it's not XML namespace URIs, it's XML DTD system identifiers in
the <!DOCTYPE of HTML files... certain moronic software authors, for
reasons best known to themselves, issue a GET on the stupid thing
(which is *large*) every time they process an HTML instance.    I
haven't heard reports of this happening on XML namespace names though.
 -Tim

---

From: Julian Reschke <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2008 20:01:09 +0100

Lisa Dusseault wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I'm adding IANA and Thomas Narten (author of IANA considerations docs) 
> to this thread to get early IANA feedback about this idea.  It may well 
> be a good idea, but we definitely want to think it through:
> 
>    ... including a HTML or XML document hosted by IANA on its Website at 
> the location specified in the registered URL
> ...

That was about DTDs (fetched by XML parsers), not namespace documents.

BR, Julian

---

From: Mark Nottingham <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2008 07:22:41 +1100

Details:
   http://www.w3.org/blog/systeam/2008/02/08/w3c_s_excessive_dtd_traffic

Personally, if I had to serve this traffic, I'd put a highly- 
concurrent Web server (e.g., Lighttpd) in place and build a one-second 
+ delay into serving those responses. Fine for human use, but will  
motivate software authors to find out why things suddenly got so slow...

Beyond that, question: how many IETF specs use a namespace URI as the  
primary means of identifying the format/protocol? As opposed to a  
media type. My suspicion is that the number is fairly small. If that's  
the case, I wonder if there's a need for these URIs to be resolvable.

Cheers,

On 19/02/2008, at 6:01 AM, Julian Reschke wrote:

>> docs) to this thread to get early IANA feedback about this idea.   
>> It may well be a good idea, but we definitely want to think it  
>> through:
>> actual documents at the URIs?  I've been hearing rumours lately  
>> about something like this causing expensive levels of traffic, but  
>> I can't recall the details.
>> ...
>

--
Mark Nottingham     http://www.mnot.net/

---

From: Stephane Bortzmeyer <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2008 14:02:08 +0100

On Mon, Feb 18, 2008 at 10:18:16AM -0800,
 Tim Bray <[email-masked]> wrote 
 a message of 14 lines which said:

> certain moronic software authors, for reasons best known to
> themselves, issue a GET on the stupid thing

Because they need the DTD to get the HTML entities? (Yes, they should
use catalogs, caching, etc but I wanted to emphasize that I do not
find the idea "moronic".)

---

From: Balazs Lengyel <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2008 17:17:59 +0100

Hello,
In Netconf we will be using quite a bit of URIs soon. IF Netconf becomes the roaring success we 
believe in :-) we will use one URI for every standard management model (kind of MIB).
Balazs

Mark Nottingham wrote:
> Personally, if I had to serve this traffic, I'd put a highly-concurrent 
> Web server (e.g., Lighttpd) in place and build a one-second+ delay into 
> serving those responses. Fine for human use, but will motivate software 
> authors to find out why things suddenly got so slow...
> 
> primary means of identifying the format/protocol? As opposed to a media 
> type. My suspicion is that the number is fairly small. If that's the 
> case, I wonder if there's a need for these URIs to be resolvable.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> 
>>>   ... including a HTML or XML document hosted by IANA on its Website 
>>> at the location specified in the registered URL

-- 
Balazs Lengyel                       Ericsson Hungary Ltd.
TSP System Manager
ECN: 831 7320                        Fax: +36 1 4377792
Tel: +36-1-437-7320     email: [email-masked]

---

From: "Randy Presuhn" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2008 10:48:35 -0800

Hi -

> From: "Balazs Lengyel" <[email-masked]>
> To: "Mark Nottingham" <[email-masked]>
> Cc: "Thomas Narten" <[email-masked]>; "Apps Discuss" <[email-masked]>; "IANA" <[email-masked]>; "Tim Bray"
<[email-masked]>
> Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2008 8:17 AM
> Subject: Re: I-D Action:draft-duerst-iana-namespace-00.txt
>
> Hello,
...

As well as URIs (though not necessarily in our space) for every single
vendor's management models and extensions.  Depending on the
data modeling proposal, these could be either numerous or very
numerous.  In at least one modeling approach, one would likely
end up with URIs for each version of each vendor's implementations
of each "MIB", as well as their proprietary bits and pieces.

Randy