Subject: [dmarc-ietf] Announcement - DMARC bis Design Team

From: Seth Blank <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2021 09:58:53 -0800

On 27 October 2020, in post
https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dmarc/qtCDyGbeDHz96G8FaCxJvhJKrvo/
the chairs announced a split of RFC7489 into three documents, to be scoped
as follows:

   - The DMARC Base Spec (editors - Emil Gustafsson, Todd Herr, and John
   Levine)
   - Aggregate Reporting (editor - Alex Brotman)
   - Forensic Reporting (editors - Steve Jones and Alessandro Vesely)

The chairs are of the opinion that discussion of topics related to the
DMARC bis documents on the mailing list has reached a point where it would
be unreasonable to expect any timely progress toward completion of the
refinement of the DMARC bis at this point.

Our charter (https://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/dmarc/about/) is clear on what
this working group’s priority should be when reviewing and improving the
DMARC specification: “Issues based on operational experience and/or data
aggregated from multiple sources will be given priority.”

We are spending too much time on items that are at best incidental to
DMARC, and rarely are informed by operational practice or data from
multiple sources. Efforts by the chairs to weigh in and declare discussions
unproductive work for that particular thread, but the involved parties just
move on to another thread, and consensus remains well over the horizon.

We have therefore decided that the best approach to achieve progress for
the DMARC bis documents is to form a design team, per RFC 2418, Section
6.5. The team will be composed of the editors, focused on their designated
documents, as defined above. The team will be charged with working through
all existing tickets and producing an updated version of each DMARC bis
document to present to the working group, at which point discussion would
resume on-list with respect to the updated documents.

The design team will operate as follows:

   1.

   A moratorium is hereby imposed on creating tickets for this working
   group, effective at 5pm PT, Friday, February 26th.
   2.

   The design team will have until 5pm PT, Friday, April 23rd, to work
   through all applicable tickets, and come to agreement on each to either
   modify DMARC bis documents (and make such modification) or reject the
   ticket, with the reason for rejection added to the ticket's comments. No
   tickets will be closed during this process, everything will be transparent
   for working group review after the design period.
   3.

   Changes made to the DMARC bis documents will be tracked in the following
   manner:
   1.

      By comments added to the ticket driving the change
      2.

      By comments in the markdown (.md) and/or XML version of the documents
      3.

      Through an Appendix section added temporarily to the documents, so
      that changes can be easily summarized for the next step in the process.
      4.

      All changes throughout the process will be publicly visible within
      GitHub (https://github.com/ietf-wg-dmarc).
      4.

   At the end of the time period, in roughly sixty days (or earlier if
   their work is finished before then), the design team will deliver updated
   versions of the DMARC bis documents to the working group, and the working
   group will have a chance to review that version and make
   comments/recommending edits, etc., using
   https://trac.ietf.org/trac/dmarc/report/1 to create tickets as needed.
   Initial discussion will be limited to what’s in the documents.
   5.

   The design team will consult with each other and the chairs during their
   work as needed.

The chairs spent a great deal of time discussing this, and we don’t take
this action lightly or without hesitation, but in the end we feel it’s the
best way to not only make progress on the working group's efforts, but also
to allow for working group participants to reset and perhaps gain a fresh
perspective on this important work.

After the updated documents have been presented to the working group, we
will hold an interim to discuss them and hear all feedback.

Seth, Tim, and Alexey, as Co-Chairs

-- 

*Seth Blank* | VP, Standards and New Technologies
*e:* [email-masked]
*p:* 415.273.8818

`

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---

From: Tim Wicinski <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2021 13:03:58 -0500

Thanks for sending this out Seth.   folks are free to contact the chairs
and our AD if they have questions, concerns.

tim

On Mon, Feb 22, 2021 at 12:59 PM Seth Blank <[email-masked]> wrote:

> Our charter (https://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/dmarc/about/) is clear on
> what this working group’s priority should be when reviewing and improving
> the DMARC specification: “Issues based on operational experience and/or
> data aggregated from multiple sources will be given priority.”
>
>    Changes made to the DMARC bis documents will be tracked in the
>    following manner:
>    1.
>
>    The design team will consult with each other and the chairs during
>    their work as needed.
>
>

---

From: Dotzero <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2021 16:59:11 -0500

So I'm assuming there won't be anything to talk about at the next IETF
meeting.

Michael Hammer

On Mon, Feb 22, 2021 at 12:59 PM Seth Blank <seth=
[email-masked]> wrote:

> _______________________________________________
> dmarc mailing list
> [email-masked]
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmarc
>

---

From: tjw ietf <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2021 17:05:10 -0500

We’re working on canceling the meeting. 

Tim

Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 22, 2021, at 16:59, Dotzero <[email-masked]> wrote:
> 
> 
> So I'm assuming there won't be anything to talk about at the next IETF meeting.
> 
> Michael Hammer
> 
>> On Mon, Feb 22, 2021 at 12:59 PM Seth Blank <seth=[email-masked]> wrote:
>> On 27 October 2020, in post https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dmarc/qtCDyGbeDHz96G8FaCxJvhJKrvo/ the chairs announced a split of RFC7489 into three documents, to be scoped as follows:
>> 
>> The DMARC Base Spec (editors - Emil Gustafsson, Todd Herr, and John Levine)
>> Aggregate Reporting (editor - Alex Brotman)
>> Forensic Reporting (editors - Steve Jones and Alessandro Vesely)
>> 
>> The chairs are of the opinion that discussion of topics related to the DMARC bis documents on the mailing list has reached a point where it would be unreasonable to expect any timely progress toward completion of the refinement of the DMARC bis at this point.
>> 
>> Our charter (https://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/dmarc/about/) is clear on what this working group’s priority should be when reviewing and improving the DMARC specification: “Issues based on operational experience and/or data aggregated from multiple sources will be given priority.”
>> 
>> We are spending too much time on items that are at best incidental to DMARC, and rarely are informed by operational practice or data from multiple sources. Efforts by the chairs to weigh in and declare discussions unproductive work for that particular thread, but the involved parties just move on to another thread, and consensus remains well over the horizon.
>> 
>> We have therefore decided that the best approach to achieve progress for the DMARC bis documents is to form a design team, per RFC 2418, Section 6.5. The team will be composed of the editors, focused on their designated documents, as defined above. The team will be charged with working through all existing tickets and producing an updated version of each DMARC bis document to present to the working group, at which point discussion would resume on-list with respect to the updated documents.
>> 
>> A moratorium is hereby imposed on creating tickets for this working group, effective at 5pm PT, Friday, February 26th.
>> The design team will have until 5pm PT, Friday, April 23rd, to work through all applicable tickets, and come to agreement on each to either modify DMARC bis documents (and make such modification) or reject the ticket, with the reason for rejection added to the ticket's comments. No tickets will be closed during this process, everything will be transparent for working group review after the design period.
>> Changes made to the DMARC bis documents will be tracked in the following manner:
>> Through an Appendix section added temporarily to the documents, so that changes can be easily summarized for the next step in the process.
>> All changes throughout the process will be publicly visible within GitHub (https://github.com/ietf-wg-dmarc).
>> At the end of the time period, in roughly sixty days (or earlier if their work is finished before then), the design team will deliver updated versions of the DMARC bis documents to the working group, and the working group will have a chance to review that version and make comments/recommending edits, etc., using https://trac.ietf.org/trac/dmarc/report/1 to create tickets as needed. Initial discussion will be limited to what’s in the documents.
>> The design team will consult with each other and the chairs during their work as needed.
>> 
>> The chairs spent a great deal of time discussing this, and we don’t take this action lightly or without hesitation, but in the end we feel it’s the best way to not only make progress on the working group's efforts, but also to allow for working group participants to reset and perhaps gain a fresh perspective on this important work.
>> 
>> After the updated documents have been presented to the working group, we will hold an interim to discuss them and hear all feedback.
>> 
>> Seth Blank | VP, Standards and New Technologies
>> e: [email-masked]
>> p: 415.273.8818
>> 
>> `
>> This email and all data transmitted with it contains confidential and/or proprietary information intended solely for the use of individual(s) authorized to receive it. If you are not an intended and authorized recipient you are hereby notified of any use, disclosure, copying or distribution of the information included in this transmission is prohibited and may be unlawful. Please immediately notify the sender by replying to this email and then delete it from your system.

---

From: Seth Blank <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2021 18:14:57 -0800

>    for working group review after the design period.
Tickets are now officially frozen through April 23rd, while the design team
gets to work.

Seth, for the Chairs