Subject: [edu-team] Yellow sheets

From: Avri Doria <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2005 01:05:10 -0400

Hi,

the DNS guys decided they wanted a 'sign the sheet' mechanism for  
their session.  Marcia gave then a yellow pad.   I talked to her  
afterward about formalizing this - i.e. yellow signup sheets for edu  
sessions.

what do people think?  should i ask for this starting for IETF64?

a.

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From: Brian E Carpenter <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2005 10:10:02 +0200

How much information did the pre-registration via the Web give?

I think we'd have to say "it's voluntary" whereas the blue sheets
at WG sessions are supposed to be mandatory. But I see no harm
in it.

    Brian

Avri Doria wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> the DNS guys decided they wanted a 'sign the sheet' mechanism for  their 
> session.  Marcia gave then a yellow pad.   I talked to her  afterward 
> about formalizing this - i.e. yellow signup sheets for edu  sessions.
>

---

From: Avri Doria <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2005 07:34:23 -0400

Hi,

I assume that that is also the case for the Pink sheets used for IRTF  
meetings.

Further, I expect there are a fair number of people who take the blue  
sheets as voluntary.  I certainly don't every remember anyone ever  
saying they were required.  Of course that may be the better part of  
valor.  Telling folks that they were required, might produce fewer  
signatures then asking people to please sign them does.

a.

On 18 aug 2005, at 04.10, Brian E Carpenter wrote:

>> afterward about formalizing this - i.e. yellow signup sheets for  
>> edu  sessions.

---

From: Brian E Carpenter <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2005 15:07:43 +0200

I think that RFC 2026 says that taking attendance at WG meetings
is mandatory, but there are certainly people who don't sign.

It would matter if the question of a failure to make an IPR
disclosure every came up in court - the blue sheets could be
sub poenaed to find out if X was present.

    Brian

---

From: Avri Doria <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2005 10:08:24 -0400

Hi,

I don't find it in RFC2026 but in RFC2418. Specifically:

> The Chair and/or Secretary must ensure that minutes of a session
>       are taken and that an attendance list is circulated (see section
>       3.1).

and 3.1 includes this:

> All working group sessions (including those held outside of the IETF
>    meetings) shall be reported by making minutes available.  These
>    minutes should include the agenda for the session, an account of  
> the
>    discussion including any decisions made, and a list of attendees.

Not that i have ever seen minutes include a list of attendees.  And I  
am not sure that this makes signing the sheet mandatory, or only the  
circulation of the sheet.

So, as i see it, it would be up to the Edu team to decide whether we  
wanted to circulate yellow sheets, and up to the individuals whether  
they wanted to sign.

Personally I think it would be useful in terms of knowing how many  
people attend these sessions.  And in terms of Newcomers, it is  
probably a good teaching device.

a.

On 18 aug 2005, at 09.07, Brian E Carpenter wrote:

>> I assume that that is also the case for the Pink sheets used for  
>> IRTF  meetings.
>> Further, I expect there are a fair number of people who take the  
>> blue  sheets as voluntary.  I certainly don't every remember  
>> anyone ever  saying they were required.  Of course that may be the  
>> better part of  valor.  Telling folks that they were required,  
>> might produce fewer  signatures then asking people to please sign  
>> them does.
>> a.
>>>> the DNS guys decided they wanted a 'sign the sheet' mechanism  
>>>> for   their session.  Marcia gave then a yellow pad.   I talked  
>>>> to her   afterward about formalizing this - i.e. yellow signup  
>>>> sheets for  edu  sessions.

---

From: Spencer Dawkins <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2005 09:21:46 -0500

Avri Doria wrote:

>>    minutes should include the agenda for the session, an account of  the

This is why I still think I'm a newbie... Once upon a time, we DID 
include lists of attendees (see 
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf-online-proceedings/94mar/area.and.wg.reports/app/asid-minutes-94mar.txt) 
for running code), but I haven't seen this in my IETF lifetime.

(We don't do something required by 2418? Gasp! :-)

> probably a good teaching device.

There are things I would like to know about the audience, certainly. I 
often ask "who is already editing a document/chairing a WG or BOF" at 
Leadership training, and I should have started asking "how many 
first-time attendees?" at Orientation a LONG time ago.

Spencer