Subject: [edu-team] IETF 71 - Document Lifecycle tutorial

From: Alice Hagens <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 11:33:15 -0800

EDU team,

As Margaret mentioned, please let me know if you have suggestions or  
would like to volunteer to present the Document Lifecycle tutorial  
with me on March 9th. The slides are available here: ftp://ftp.rfc- 
editor.org/in-notes/rfc-editor/lifecycle.pdf

At IETF 70, Margaret and I divided it roughly as follows:

1. Where do RFCs come from? (AH)
2. Writing an Internet Draft
    - Things to think about before writing your draft (MW)
    - Contents of an I-D (AH*)
3. The lifecycle from I-D to RFC
    - pre-approval (MW - slides 39-57)
    - post-approval (AH - slides 58-68)
4. Common questions and where to look for more information (AH)

* 5 slides on IANA Considerations were presented by Michelle Cotton  
of IANA. Note that she will not be in Philadelphia Sunday, but  
perhaps another representative of IANA will be present.

Also please send along any suggestions & corrections for the slides.

Thank you.

Alice Hagens
for the RFC Editor

On Jan 29, 2008, at 6:06 PM, Margaret Wasserman wrote:

> Document Lifecycle ran for the first time in Vancouver and should  
> run again.  However, someone else will have to pair with Alice to  
> teach it.  Suggestions or volunteers?

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From: Radia Perlman <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 14:17:11 -0800

If so, I haven't seen it. And it's not on the IETF agenda.

Radia

---

From: Mirjam Kuehne <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2008 12:04:54 +0100

Hi all,

I am afraid we never finished this :-(

What I noted so far is the following:

1. Newcomers (Scott)

2. Document Lifecycle (Alice plus someone else)
   Alice, did you find a second speaker?

3. Security (Radia - late time slot)

4. XML (Tim and/or Lada)
   Any thoughts on this? Did we approach any of them and 
   asked if they are available?

5. New Work into the IETF
   Did we decide we wanted to do this again?
   Thomas, would you be willing to teach this again?

As soon as we decide which tutorials to give,
I am happy to coordinate with Marcia.

Regards,
Mirjam

---

From: Radia Perlman <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2008 11:53:58 -0800

Given that the ball got dropped this time, and given that we haven't 
done this in time to
have these advertised on the registration page, it's possible we 
shouldn't put a lot of effort into
having the tutorials this time, since I'd worry that it isn't possible 
to advertise it well enough to have
enough people show up.

"Newcomers" is already advertised, and was also I think a question on 
the registration page ("will you attend").
"Bringing new work" is the kind of thing that anyone who attends the 
newcomers presentation would likely want to stay for,
so merely giving it a plug during the newcomers presentation, and having 
it in the same room, would probably make
it well enough attended (plus hopefully getting it listed on the next 
version of the agenda).

So I'd suggest we add "new work" into the later time slot.

As for the others, I'm willing to do the late time slot security 
tutorial, but am not enthusiastic given our unfortunate late scrambling.

Would it be fatal to edu's "momentum" if we lay kind of low for this 
IETF, and only do the two (newcomers, new work)?

Also, I'd suggest that it's hard to have shared responsibility. We need 
one person responsible for driving the tutorials
in the future. They don't have to do all the work -- for instance, they 
can delegate responsibility to shepherd creation
of some tutorial to someone else, but we need one person who 
coordinates, keeps things done early, delegates specific
responsibility, etc. We've tended to only start thinking about tutorials 
when it's too late to develop a new one for the
next IETF, so we sort of scramble, and then forget about it until near 
the deadline for the next IETF.

The tutorials would be much better if we did it way earlier -- thinking 
of areas that are mysterious and could use a tutorial,
think about people that might be able to do it, recruiting them, giving 
them deadlines so we can review their slides
to ensure they are appropriate, etc.

Margaret has more exciting things to do at this point :-), so I think it 
would be great if someone else would take over
(Mirjam?) at this point. I'd be a good 2nd line delegatee -- 
brainstorming about mysterious areas, recruiting speakers, helping
them prepare... But before doing that, especially getting someone to do 
the work of preparing, I'd have to know that the
edu team will offer the class (assuming it turns out OK and is prepared 
in time for review). In the past it's never been clear
to me how the decisions were made.

So this might be a good time for the group to take a deep breath and get 
organized differently for the future.

Radia

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From: Alice Hagens <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2008 12:08:12 -0800

Mirjam,

>    Alice, did you find a second speaker?

I haven't heard from anyone willing to cover the WG process, etc.,  
for the Document Lifecycle tutorial. If there are no volunteers, we  
can do the RFC Editor tutorial, last presented at IETF 69 (slides  
available from: ftp://ftp.rfc-editor.org/in-notes/rfc-editor/ 
tutorial.latest.pdf).

Alice

---

From: Brian E Carpenter <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 09:46:04 +1300

I agree with Radia - let's make sure that the newcomers and
new work ones work well, and leave the rest aside, because doing
a bad job is worse than doing no job.

Someone should perhaps explain in plenary what happened.

And next time the EDU chair goes unavoidably MIA, let's make sure
that a backup is appointed.

(And it also seems I will miss Philly, BTW.)

    Brian

---

From: Brian E Carpenter <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 11:24:03 +1300

I can see that is the fallback position, but many
people could present the second part of the lifecycle
tutorial, I think. I'd gladly volunteer myself if I was
going to be in Philly.

    Brian

---

From: Mirjam Kuehne <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 12:28:04 +0100

Before we decide, maybe Thomas needs to speak up and say if he
is willing to give New Work this time :-) Thomas?
 
I'll then get back to Marcia.

It would be good to meet in Philly with whoever is there and has time
to discuss next steps as suggested by Radia. Shall we try lunch 
again or is this too busy?

Mirjam

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From: Ray Pelletier <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 07:03:09 -0500

>is willing to give New Work this time :-) Thomas?
We also need the RFC Editor piece, either in the new Life Cycle format , 
or standalone.
Of the 900 people registered so far, 182 say they are first timers.
I believe ISI is prepared to provide their piece.

Ray

---

From: Mirjam Kuehne <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 13:18:25 +0100

Alice, 

What do you think? Document Lifestyle or RFC Editor's tutorial? 
And what time slot would you prefer?

We had said New Work makes sense right after the Newcomers.
That would mean you would have to take a parallel slot, right?

Mirjam

---

From: Alice Hagens <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 09:23:18 -0800

Mirjam,

Right, the second slot, please. If Bringing New Work is not  
happening, we would happily have the same room as Newcomers.

If there is no one willing to cover the WG process in the Document  
Lifecycle tutorial (slides 41-57 of ftp://ftp.rfc-editor.org/in-notes/ 
rfc-editor/lifecycle.pdf), we can do the RFC Editor tutorial.

Thanks,
Alice

---

From: Thomas Narten <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 15:15:45 -0500

Mirjam,

> is willing to give New Work this time :-) Thomas?

I can do this (I had to confirm I could work out the travel
logistics).

Would this be for the 3-4:45PM time slot?

Thomas

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From: Mirjam Kuehne <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 21:20:27 +0100

Hi Thomas,

Great. Thanks.

That means the schedule would look like this:

1300-1445 Newcomers' Orientation - Franklin 3/4
1500-1645 New Work to the IETF - Franklin 3/4

1300 - 1445 RFC Editor's Tutorial - Room TBD

(or did you want the later slot, Alice?)

Marcia, it is decided :-) 

Mirjam

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From: Alice Hagens <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2008 10:35:24 -0800

Mirjam, Marcia,

For the RFC Editor's tutorial, the first slot 1300-1445 is fine.

Thanks,
Alice

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From: Ray Pelletier <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 29 Feb 2008 05:26:13 -0500

>For the RFC Editor's tutorial, the first slot 1300-1445 is fine.
I would note that this conflicts with the Newcomers Training for which 
we have 173 saying they plan to attend and who might constitute a 
natural audience for RFC Editor's training.  We have nearly 200 1st time 
attendees coming to Philly.
Ray

---

From: Thomas Narten <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 29 Feb 2008 15:52:12 -0500

> attendees coming to Philly.

I am OK with doing the New Work session during the first slot. I would
expect that the overlap between those interested in New Work
vs. Newcomers Training should be low. Maybe.

Besides, I'm having to opt out of another meeting by giving a
presentation during the second slot.

But it is presumably kid of late to be tweaking this now? I.e, are the
hard copy schedules at the printers?

Thomas

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From: Marcia Beaulieu <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 29 Feb 2008 15:16:37 -0600

Yes, the agenda has gone to the printer already but since folks won't  
receive that until they check in at registration, we can change it on  
the web version and send out announcements.

Since we didn't get the tutorial information until this past week,  
the information was not available when folks registered.

If you want to swap New Work and RFC, I will do that and then send  
out a note to the announcement list and 71-attendees to let folks  
know which tutorials are being presented on Sunday.

Will that work?

Marcia

---

From: Alice Hagens <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 29 Feb 2008 17:53:11 -0800

The RFC Editor is flexible. We're available for either time slot and  
content with having the slot that works best for everyone.

Typically Scott has a slide in Newcomers that lists the other  
tutorials. By adding URLs to it, the audience would have pointers to  
any tutorials that they do not attend.

Alice
for the RFC Editor

On Feb 29, 2008, at 1:16 PM, Marcia Beaulieu wrote:

> Yes, the agenda has gone to the printer already but since folks  
> won't receive that until they check in at registration, we can  
> change it on the web version and send out announcements.
>