Subject: [edu-team] Measurements Tutorial

From: Mirjam Kuehne <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2015 17:02:46 +0200

Hi,

Vinayak Hedge participated in a RIPE Atlas measurements hackathon last 
weekend in Amsterdam, so I took the opportunity to talk to him about the 
measurements tutorial he offered to do at the IETF.

We reviewed his earlier proposal and came up with the outline below. He 
is still very interested to do this, ideally in Prague (and possibly 
repeat it in Yokohama). He will also work together with various people 
involved in the relevant WGs. What do you think?

Regards,
Mirjam
=======

Tutorial Outline: What should we cover ?

1. Current work in the IETF for measurements
    - list the relevant WGs and recent IDs
      - IPPM, BMWG, LMAP, PMOL
      - explain the different scopes and the different types of 
measurements (measuring different parts of the network)
    - difference between active and passive measurements (there are a 
number of IDs talking about this)
2. Underlying statistics (relevant to measurements)
    - distribution models used in IETF WGs
3. Which measurements tools are out there
    - RIPE Atlas (RIPE NCC)
    - M-Lab (Google)
    - other visualisations (maybe hands-on)
    - ping, traceroute, etc..
4. Implications for network engineers and policy
    - real-life examples

mention as pre-requisite in the tutorial description:
- TCP models and cross-layer network concerns

Why we need this and why is it important ?

There are several new people participating in the IETF in these groups
and we are trying to attract more. As a part of PMOL, we have been
trying to recruit more people who can contribute to reviewing drafts
for performance considerations. There is a growing concern that we now
have enough bandwidth and latency is becoming more and more of a
critical issue across groups (and hence measuring it and improving it
becomes a critical issues). However, to understand measurements, you
need to not only have a good grip of the protocols but also some
amount of understanding of underlying statistics and modelling.

For example, if we were to do a measurement, how many packets should
we send ? what should be the payload size and what should be the
duration between packets. How much loss are we okay with in case of
measurement to get a good idea. When we publish the measurements,
should we talk about the mean/median or distribution or both. etc.

As you can see in the above questions, we not only have to understand
the network (across layers) but must understand how to statistically
model these as well to make sure the measurements make sense.

Audience: Who will benefit and how ?

I can see several people benefiting from these.
1. Network engineers - these will get a good idea of how to do
measurement and how to model measurements and interpret results. This
will lead to better measurements.
2. Regulators - They will get an understanding of how there are
complex interactions in the network and the statistics behind the
measurements. This will lead to better policy.
3. Network equipment manufacturers/vendors - They will get an idea of
how to use different knobs and levers so the network engineers can use
them effectively.

---

From: Radia Perlman <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2015 10:08:51 -0700

Looks like a potentially fantastic tutorial.  I assume the outline isn't
exactly how the tutorial is, but I'd hope that they first talk about the
kinds of things you'd want to accomplish with measurement (fault detection,
need for beefing up resources, moving VMs around, ... whatever), and then
the kinds of things that you'd measure to yield this sort of information,
before drowning people in the alphabet soup of WGs and draft names.

Radia

On Mon, Mar 30, 2015 at 8:02 AM, Mirjam Kuehne <[email-masked]> wrote:

> We reviewed his earlier proposal and came up with the outline below. He is
> still very interested to do this, ideally in Prague (and possibly repeat it
> in Yokohama). He will also work together with various people involved in
> the relevant WGs. What do you think?
>
> Regards,
> Mirjam
> =======
>
> _______________________________________________
> edu-team mailing list
> [email-masked]
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/edu-team
>

---

From: Brian E Carpenter <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2015 07:46:09 +1300

I agree, this looks rather good. I will consult with my colleague
Nevil Brownlee, who has been around measurement work for years, to
get his opinion.

    Brian

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From: Mirjam Kuehne <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2015 09:24:22 +0200

Thanks, Brian. Thanks, Radia. I'll pass any feedback on to Vinayak. So, 
do you think we can schedule this for Prague?

Mirjam

---

From: Brian E Carpenter <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 01 Apr 2015 07:49:30 +1300

On 31/03/2015 20:24, Mirjam Kuehne wrote:
> Thanks, Brian. Thanks, Radia. I'll pass any feedback on to Vinayak. So, do you think we can schedule this for Prague?

I'd say yes, but since he is a bit of a newcomer to us, getting someone
like Al Morton also involved would be wise.

   Brian