Subject: grow: draft GROW WG minutes for IETF 60 (San Diego)

From: David Meyer <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 13:37:46 -0700

Please send additions, deletions and/or corrections to
	the list. Thanks to Jeff for serving as scribe.

	Thanks,

	Geoff & Dave

---

Global Routing Operations (grow)

THURSDAY, August 5, 2004 (1530-1730)
====================================

CHAIR(s): Geoff Huston <[email-masked]>
          David Meyer  <[email-masked]>
MINUTES:  Jeffrey Haas <[email-masked]>

Plug for xml2rfc

Agenda:
Charter update
Review and status of work items
- active drafts
- inactive drafts
BGP Status Reports

Active drafts:
bgp-med-considerations  - ready for last call, but missing a diagram.
needs last call
grow-collection-communities - waiting for input from AD.  comments
from Sue Hares.
grow-embed-addr - waiting for input from AD
grow-rift - started after vienna routing wg meeting.  presupposed
answer to question trying to analyze.
design team formed - hasn't been too functional recently.  Current
draft needs revision, David Meyer hasn't had a chance to work on it
recently.  Please look at controversial sections: fit for different
kinds of signalling applications.  David Meyer will try to rewrite that
particular section.

Please read it.

Eric Rosen: Is this still needed?  it's purpose was to kill
	    something anyway. 

David Meyer: Need to ask AD. They chartered it.

Eric Rosen: Let it expire?

Yakov Rekhter: WG consensu to let it expire?

David Meyer: Consensus of room inconclusive - take it to list.

Expired / inactive drafts

bounded-longest-match -
bgp-redistribution - 

Will take it to list to see if we let it lapse to individual submissions

Geoff Huston (with APNIC hat on): Routing table status report

The various views, although differing, follow the same general progression.

We see an interesting drop in the table in 2000 from the previous Internet boom 
expoential-like growth.  Afterwards it appears roughly linear.

How much address space does this carry?  [2/2000 - current time]
1 billion-1.3 billion /32's.
Approximately 1/4 of the IPv4 address space.

There is some banding going on - apparently from flapping /8's.
Interesting that the /8's are flapping.

2002 had a decrease from the linear growth in address use, but 2003
resumed the linear growth.

More specifics - how much are more specifics of existing advertisements?
2001 - 55% of the entries "added nothing".
More recently, this has declined to 51%.

David Meyer: Has this analysis been done with paths as well?

Geoff Huston: Yes.  The difference is just a few percentage points.
Once the routes reach route-views, the more specifics make no
difference.

Growth of ASNs
17000 unique ASN's.
Majority originate some routes
Very few are transit only

Systematic filtering is happening or something similar.  Some views
of the Internet have a consistently smaller numbers.  The difference
is up to 1000.  AT&T/Verio is one of the views that this is true.

This leads to the observation that strong prefix filtering may result in some
information loss, but this begs the question of whether this results in
loss of forwarding information.

Average AS Path Length:
Most folk who peer with route views have an average AS distance of 4 ASes.
As the number of ASes increases, the interconnectivity density increases.

The inference is that once you count past 4, you count past the 
average diameter of the Internet.

Aggregation potential:
[2002-2004]
If you eliminate more specifics that eliminate shared as paths, including
the ones with prepending, we would be carrying (today) 98k entries in the RIB.

If you were more aggressive and eliminate additional prepending, we lose
only another 2k.

There are around 8-9k entries which are more specifics with a different
AS Path.  The bulk of the more specifics share the same AS Path - and
thus do not add to the useful information advertised.

(Note that this comes from a single view.)

George Michelson: Does this graph elected to say the more ..

Geoff Huston: The bigger the table, the longer the period.  Thus, we're adding more
specifics more quickly.

George: Thus eliminating more specifics buys us more time?

Geoff Huston: Another interesting thing to match is the rate of updates against covered
more specifics.  If the updates are flapping in more specifics, you can
make some judgement about who is contributing to the load.  

IPv6 routing table is slightly linear (12 months).  Starts at 400
and a few weeks ago is 640.  Much more massive instability from
Geoff Huston's view of BGP.  There are also some massive breaks.  Perhaps
observing the IPv6 summits would account for some spikes in the
table.

Thus, the table is very small and growth is driven by external events.

The amount of addresses spanned is much harder.  In ipv6 there are two sets of
addresses.  RIR's use 2001/16.  They allocate a /32.  6bone uses 3ffe/16,
they allocate a /24.  Thus the 6bone space and it's dynamicism heavily
affects the observed address spanned.

Unique ASN's - ~450 today comapared to > 8K in IPv4.  The curve shape more
closely matches the observed address usage.

If the goal was strong matching for aggregation 1-as to 1-prefix, this seems
to be occuring.

Aggregation potential - they are very very close and thus not many that
you can eliminate.  The v6 table doesn't exhibit same properties as v4 table.
Thus, aggregation is working.

Current snapshot of observed address space.  IETF (multicast, etc).  
Not routed space that has been handed out is dominated by class A
historical allocations from IANA.  No one is trying to figure out if
they should be reclaimed.  

Most of the recently allocated RIR space has been allocated is actually
being routed. (Class A space)

Historic B space doesn't match this.  Not much of this is being routed.

Current ASN's:
We're about 1/2 through the allocatable ASN's.

Old ASN's don't die.  Recently allocated ones correlate strongly to 
the ones routed.

Amount of 6bone space that is routed is checker-boarded.

Only a small amount of RIR allocated space is routed in 6bone.

Tony Li: I've done similar computation to what Geoff Huston has done, he
deserves a round of applause.

----

Global Routing Operations (grow)

THURSDAY, August 5, 2004 (1530-1730)
====================================

CHAIR(s): Geoff Huston <[email-masked]>
          David Meyer  <[email-masked]>

AGENDA

 o Administriva                                         5 minutes

   - Mailing list: [email-masked]
     subscribe grow

   - Scribe?

   - Blue Sheets

 o Agenda Bashing                                        5 minutes
   Meyer                                           

 o Charter update                                        5 minutes

 o Review and status of work items                      45 minutes

   Active Drafts
   -------------
   draft-ietf-grow-bgp-med-considerations-01.txt         5 minutes
    McPherson/Gill
   draft-ietf-grow-collection-communities-04.txt         5 minutes
    Meyer 
   draft-ietf-grow-embed-addr-03.txt                     5 minutes
    Plonka  
   draft-ietf-grow-rift-01.txt                          10 minutes
    Meyer

   Expired/Inactive Drafts
   -----------------------
   draft-grow-bounded-longest-match-01.txt              10 minutes
   draft-hardie-bounded-longest-match-05.txt
    Hardie/White

   draft-ietf-grow-bgp-redistribution-01.txt            10 minutes
    Bonaventure et al

 o BGP Status Reports                                   20 minutes
   Huston/All
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