Subject: [GROW] Operational experience with cache based mapping ID

From: "William Herrin" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2008 10:17:21 -0600

Hi folks,

There was a suggestion at grow this morning that we produce a ID on
operational experience with cache-based mapping systems. Systems like
the DNS have been very successful. On the other hand, I still remember
worms sending to random destinations on a 56k modem DOSing a Cisco
2500 because of the route cache. It would be very helpful to determine
what factors allow a caching strategy to be successful and what
factors tend to lead to failure.

I think this is very relevant to a number of the solution strategies
under discussion on RRG, not just LISP. So, is anyone else interested
in organizing the effort? If not, I volunteer.

Regards,
Bill Herrin

-- 
William D. Herrin ................ [email-masked]  [email-masked]
3005 Crane Dr. ...................... Web: <http://bill.herrin.us/>
Falls Church, VA 22042-3004
_______________________________________________
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From: Lan Wang <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2008 10:24:29 -0600

Bill,

Here's a related paper on this topic: http:// 
networks.cs.northwestern.edu/publications/cache_JCN.pdf

"Pollution Attacks and Defenses for Internet Caching Systems"
L. Deng, Y. Gao, Y. Chen, and A. Kuzmanovic
In Journal of Computer Networks, 52(5): 935-956, April 2008.

This is an extended version of their ICNP 2006 paper "Internet Cache  
Pollution Attacks and Countermeasures".

Lan

On Nov 19, 2008, at 10:17 AM, William Herrin wrote:

> rrg mailing list
> [email-masked]
> https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/rrg

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From: "PAPADIMITRIOU Dimitri" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2008 18:10:49 +0100

i see value in such effort. ready to help.
-d. 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]] On 
> Behalf Of William Herrin
> Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 5:17 PM
> To: [email-masked]; Routing Research Group Mailing List
> Subject: [GROW] Operational experience with cache based mapping ID
> 
> Hi folks,
>

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From: Eliot Lear <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2008 19:45:08 +0100

Dimitri,

I've done some work in this space, but the best data I know of still is 
the work done by Iannone & Bonaventure:

 Iannone, L., Bonaventure, O., “Locator/ID Separation: Study on the cost 
of Mappings Caching and Mappings Lookups”,  Technical Report N. 2007-04, 
Universite Catholique de Louvain, July 2007.

This work is important.  It indicates that concerns about cache sizes 
are considerably overblown.  Please have a look at the numbers and 
methodology in that work.

Of course more information is always welcome.

Eliot

On 11/19/08 6:10 PM, PAPADIMITRIOU Dimitri wrote:
>> 3005 Crane Dr. ...................... Web:<http://bill.herrin.us/>

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From: "Christopher Morrow" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2008 14:51:22 -0500

I believe the work is important to help quantify requirements both on
the PE/P side of the problem and the CE side. Understanding how much
cache is required on a CE device with standard customer loads will
help sizing the memory/cache/speed of CE devices.

The same should be applied to the PE/P devices... how much more
RAM/SRAM/TCAM/... is required for large provider boxes?

-chris

On Wed, Nov 19, 2008 at 1:45 PM, Eliot Lear <[email-masked]> wrote:
> Dimitri,
>
> I've done some work in this space, but the best data I know of still is the
> work done by Iannone & Bonaventure:
>
>  Iannone, L., Bonaventure, O., "Locator/ID Separation: Study on the cost of
> Mappings Caching and Mappings Lookups",  Technical Report N. 2007-04,
> This work is important.  It indicates that concerns about cache sizes are
> considerably overblown.  Please have a look at the numbers and methodology
> in that work.
>

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From: "Christopher Morrow" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2008 14:52:32 -0500

(argh, posted from bad src-addr)

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From: Iljitsch van Beijnum <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2008 16:55:04 -0600

On 19 nov 2008, at 12:45, Eliot Lear wrote:

> Iannone, L., Bonaventure, O., “Locator/ID Separation: Study on the  
> cost of Mappings Caching and Mappings Lookups”,  Technical Report N.  
> 2007-04, Universite Catholique de Louvain, July 2007.

> This work is important.  It indicates that concerns about cache  
> sizes are considerably overblown.

Under normal circumstances. But unfortunately, sometimes bad things  
happen, or bad people make bad things happen. See:

http://www.onlamp.com/pub/a/onlamp/2003/01/28/msworm.html

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From: "William Herrin" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2008 08:10:37 -0600

Thanks folks. The question was asked in GROW but it seems like its
most directly relevant to the research being done in RRG. I suggest we
move the discussion to one list or the other and periodically give an
update to both. Does anyone have a preference for which list?

Regards,
Bill

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From: Luigi Iannone <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2008 17:57:12 +0100

If that experience is useful I am ready to help

Luigi

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From: Ron Bonica <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2008 14:59:03 -0500

Hi Bill,

Since we are discussing operational experience, I would like to see the
conversation continue on the GROW list.

GROW chairs,

There seems to be interest in this topic. Could you guys appoint a
document editor?

                                 Ron