Subject: [homenet] making wifi better (was: Despair)

From: Dave Taht <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2015 02:29:46 -0700

I am delighted to see a cross layer conversation on wifi finally
taking place here. I gave a talk at last weeks battlemesh about a few
of the things in the pipeline to improve it:

https://plus.google.com/u/0/107942175615993706558/posts/W5tynWhK8v1

The fun part, where I lay out one of the big reasons why aggregation
does not work as well as it could - using the folk in the room to
emulate packets and queue behavior - starts at about 27 minutes in.

I do not have sufficient time or finances (I am in the eu that month)
to make it to the sept 13 802.11 meeting in thailand, but I would
certainly like it if more concerned homenet wg participants and others
that care about the future of wifi could attend an 802.11 wg meeting
once in a while.

On Mon, Aug 10, 2015 at 2:15 AM, Toerless Eckert <[email-masked]> wrote:
>
> This is a nice start for what i'd call poblem 2): making
> multipoint delivery of serious amount of data to more receivers more
> reliable.  Would love to understand if there is any definition of how
> this would or could be used for actual IP multicast, eg: where
> is the definition of using IGMP membership reports to
> track receivers, automatically define a GCR etc. pp ?? I'd be surprised
> if 802.11 would elevate to that level... Maybe thats something we could/should do ?
>
> But yes, this is not solution to problem 1) which is about IP signaling
> protocols that currently rely on multicast. We should target something
> that has a lower set of requirements against APs (like worst possible AP
> needs to work for us), and we probably want to take more care of
> battery. (I say probably because i still haven't seen good simple but persuasive
> numbers for wifi-multicast vs. real world batery drain, so i am operation on a
> faith base only here which i don't particularily like. )
>
> On Mon, Aug 10, 2015 at 10:42:40AM +0200, Henning Rogge wrote:
>> On Mon, Aug 10, 2015 at 10:34 AM, Mikael Abrahamsson <[email-masked]> wrote:
>> > Donald Eastlake posted this a few days ago:
>> >
>> > "- 802.11 does have a feature called GCR -- Groupcast With Retries,
>> > which was part of the 802.11aa amendment, although it is not widely
>> > implemented. It includes such features as a way for the AP to send
>> > several multi-destination frames and then, using unicast, to poll
>> > associated stations for a bit map of which of those frames they
>> > correctly received (BlockAck) and a feature for the AP to
>> > spontaneously transmit a multi-destination frame more than once
>> > without causing confusion for improved reliability."
>>
>> Okay...
>>
>> this is quite new and I am not sure it will solve all the multicast
>> problems for 802.11. Neighbor discovery (both IPv6 and routing
>> protocol) has potentially to deal with a lot of neighbors, some of
>> them not even known to the transmitter. It also feels like a lot of
>> consumed airtime to replace a multicast with a multicast and one
>> unicast for each known neighbor. This could be dozens of media
>> accesses.
>>
>> Henning Rogge
>
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-- 
Dave Täht
worldwide bufferbloat report:
http://www.dslreports.com/speedtest/results/bufferbloat
And:
What will it take to vastly improve wifi for everyone?
https://plus.google.com/u/0/explore/makewififast