Subject: Re: [Icar] icar futures?

From: Mark Allman <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 09:29:54 -0500

> My sponsoring organization really liked the marketing aspects of
> supporting "Senior Internet Reviewers". I can explain to my sponsoring
> organization why I participate in directorates, and I can explain why
> I participate in an Area Review Team. Given a finite number of hours
> in the day...

I want to drill on this.  I don't get it at all.

I can see the obvious appeal of "senior...".  But, the rest of the above
you say you can "explain" (e.g., you can explain participation in a
directorate (that does not have a sexy name)).  So, if you can explain
and justify directorate work then why can't you explain ICAR work?  I am
trying to figure out if there is something fundamental here that is
causing problems.

Thanks!

allman

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From: Brian E Carpenter <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 16:48:28 +0100

My guess is that to corporate suits, "directorate" sounds
like a control point and "review" sounds passive. If we can
find a way of making "review" sound as important as we believe
it to be, that will help.

      Brian

Mark Allman wrote:
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>

---

From: Mark Allman <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 10:55:23 -0500

> My guess is that to corporate suits, "directorate" sounds like a
> control point and "review" sounds passive. If we can find a way of
> making "review" sound as important as we believe it to be, that will
> help.

ICAR Directorate?

I understand that the name is not sexy.  But, I my question to Spencer
stands because he said he could "explain" other activities enough to
justify them, but seemed to indicate that may not be the case with
ICAR.  And, so I am wondering if it's a sexiness thing or whether it's
more fundamental.

Thanks,
allman

--
Mark Allman -- ICIR -- http://www.icir.org/mallman/

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From: Scott W Brim <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 11:06:18 -0500

> ICAR.  And, so I am wondering if it's a sexiness thing or whether it's

I was intending to get back to this mail later today, and at that time
to list all the reasons why reviews are important, select a couple of
them, and suggest naming a "function" (maybe directorate) after them.
Instead I'm tossing out the idea in hopes that one of you will do it :-)
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From: "Alex Rousskov" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 10:19:00 -0700

> it to be, that will help.

How about a name with a "gatekeeper" in it? IETF Gatekeepers?
Sexy, important enough? There does not have to be much truth in the name,
I guess. It is all marketing.

Alex.

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From: "Spencer Dawkins" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 21:38:05 -0600

Just to repeat what's already been said more than once on this list - 
we haven't spent much time thinking about actually attracting 
reviewers.

Harald asked me to serve on the General Directorate.

Harald asked me to serve on the General Area Review Team.

Call me silly, but that was a big deal for me, both times.

Ted Hardie pointed out the "Ambulance Syndrome" in a plenary 
presentation at IETF 
58(http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/03nov/slides/plenary-4.pdf, slide 
8). Ted was right when it said it, no one argued with him then, but 
now it's a year later, and we're still making general appeals to a 
large group, and we're surprised when everyone thinks someone else has 
taken on the task.

And the "we" in the previous paragraph isn't "Mark and Joel" :-)

Spencer

p.s. SIR was different, for me, because Dave was pitching it to me as 
"outside the hierarchy" - not part of the IESG -> AD -> WG chair -> WG 
food chain, but a group focused on architecture and evolution of the 
Internet as a whole. Sorry it didn't work out.

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From: Brian E Carpenter <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 10:25:16 +0100

> ICAR.  And, so I am wondering if it's a sexiness thing or whether it's

Cross Area Review Directorate

(Has the advantage of reviving one of the buzzwords from SIRs.)

     Brian

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From: "Lucy E. Lynch" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 09:31:22 -0800 (PST)

> (Has the advantage of reviving one of the buzzwords from SIRs.)

CrossDrSirs ?