Subject: Re: [idn] UTF-8 / RACE

From: Adonis El Fakih <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 27 May 2001 14:04:15 -0400 (EDT)

Hi IDNers,

I have to agree here.

We have been using utf8 on our site and in all the backend tools like databases, programs, etc.. and some of them I had to hack a little, but I think it is easier to have utf8 implemented than using RACE.  We are also using it today to resolve Arabic domain names with DNS/BIND v9.  

It is evident from both supporters of utf8 and race that in both cases things have to change, so if we change let us do it once and for all to utf8.  The effort spent in making aps work with RACE most likely is very close to making it work with utf8, but more apps have to be converted in the utf8 case.  We are complaining that we have no choice etc..  But how many of us were forced to upgrade by our friend Microsoft, and we did it, despite our unhappiness with the process.  So this is the same, we need to move forward while ASCII is holding us back, and we should not worry about those systems.  ASCII systems most likely will not have to handle IDNs but new apps will, so if we go with utf8 we insure that we are progressing and regressing.

Just my 2 cents of wisdom :))

Ok thanks
Adonis

________________________________________________
Adonis El Fakih - Chairman, CEO
Ayna Corporation, World Trade Center, Suite 315,
Boston, MA 02210 USA

"D. J. Bernstein" <[email-masked]> ßÊÈ:

> Patrik writes:
  [ about 8-bit bytes ]
> software which is not upgraded destroy the data

False. For example, qmail and tinydns handle 8-bit data without trouble.
In message <[email-masked]> I gave a complete
example of setting up a UTF-8 IDN and sending mail to it, with no
software upgrades. The UTF-8 IDN was displayed properly by xterm.

In contrast, ACE guarantees that the data is unreadable for users of
today's non-ACE software. When you claim that an ACE IDN is transmitted
perfectly, you are ignoring the final step: getting the IDN into the
user's head!

Yes, there are a few pieces of software that have to be upgraded and
redeployed to make UTF-8 IDNs work. But there are many more pieces of
software that have to be upgraded and redeployed to make ACE IDNs work.
See http://cr.yp.to/proto/idn.html for details.

---Dan

______________________________________________________________
Ayna, The Arabic Internet Starts Here.     http://www.ayna.com

---

From: Johnny Eriksson <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 28 May 2001 13:12:13 WET DST

"D. J. Bernstein" <[email-masked]> wrote:

> it would have no advantages over simply fixing gethostbyname().

You keep talking about "fixing" gethostbyname.  Sometime people talk
about "fixing" the cat.  I firmly believe that all in all, the end
change in functionality will be in the same direction.

> ---Dan

--Johnny