Subject: RE: [Ieprep] "IEPREP" priority value for Resource-Priority

From: "Folts, Harold" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2002 13:04:13 -0500

-----Original Message-----
From: James M. Polk [mailto:[email-masked]]
Sent: Monday, March 25, 2002 1:24 PM
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [Ieprep] "IEPREP" priority value for Resource-Priority

At 04:06 AM 3/25/2002 -0700, Stuart (Stu) Goldman wrote: 

Ken, 

I believe that Hal is now using the term ETS (Emergency Telecommunications
Service) rather than ECS. 

I have an issue with this change in view of the IEPREP Charter addressing
more than Voice (ie Telecommunications) -- and of the two then prefer ECS
(which could mean anything from Voice to IM to FTP to HTTP to whatever IAA
uses)

[HF] The term "communication is too general and can include postal service
and smoke signals. Telecommunications is appropriate and should not be
limited to voice or telephony. I consider telecom. to apply equally to the
Internet and all modes in a network infrastructure.
 
Hal

---

From: "James M. Polk" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 04 Apr 2002 17:45:26 -0600

>> Internet and all modes in a network infrastructure.

"Tele" means 'over some(long) distance(s)' -- so strictly speaking (writing),
you're correct with your intention. But most of us in this community know there
is a difference in most networks - especially in closed networks like
enterprises where most of us work - between Telecommunications and
Datacommunications. The former means "voice", the latter means "everything
else". FTP, SMTP and HTTP (3 desirable applications from your ID)  for example
will always fall under the "Datacommunications" side of this categorization,
not to the Telecommunications side. I would consider "communications" to be a
better word than "Telecom", "Datacom", "Transfer", or any others I've heard or
read or thought of. I'm looking at it to relieve confusion on  limiting focus
to only voice (which you state as not being your desires here, which I agree
with BTW)
>
>>
>>   
>> Hal 
>
>
>
> *************************************
> "People generally demand more respect for their own rights than they are
> willing to allow for others"
>
> James M. Polk
> Consulting Engineer
> Office of the CTO
>
> Cisco Systems
> 2200 East President George Bush Turnpike 
> Richardson, TX  75082 USA
> w) 972.813.5208
> f)  972.813.5280
> www.cisco.com

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2002 16:51:03 EST

In a message dated 4/5/02 12:53:02 PM Eastern Standard Time, [email-masked] 
writes:

> At 08:26 AM 4/5/2002 -0800, Fred Baker wrote:
> >At 05:22 AM 4/5/2002, [email-masked] wrote:
> >>Does the IETF have any agreed vocabulary document?
> >
> >no. But this would be the first time I have ever heard the word 
> >"telecommunications" used to describe data communications, regardless of 
> >ANSI's definition.
> 
> that was kinda where I was coming from. it's always been separated 
> everywhere I've been in all my past lives (jobs)
> 
> 

Try these well known standards organizations, all of which deal with data as 
well as telephone communications:

TIA Telecommunications Industry Association (which sponsors a standards 
committee on data transmission)
ITU-T International Telecommunication Union (which has several Study Groups 
on data)
ETSI European Telecommunications Standards Institute
TTA Telecommunications Technology Association (Korea)
TTC Telecommunication Technology Committee (Japan) (which has committees on 
things other than voice)
CTIA Cellular Telecommunications and Internet Association (includes data 
communication)
TSACC Telecommunications Standards Advisory Council of Cananda

Seems everyone else is using the word in this context. Incidentally, the 
definition in T1.523 came directly from the previous Federal Standard 1037C, 
so "ANSI" didn't invent it.

Mike

---

From: "Perschau, Stephen" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2002 10:31:59 -0400

Here are the definitions for telecommunications our Convergence Working
Group (Established by the NSC) used.  I do not believe that either
definition limits telecommunications to just "voice"
 
"The term "telecommunications" is defined by the OSTP and the NSC
regulations as: "{A}ny transmission, emission, or reception of signs,
signals, writing, images, graphics, and sounds or intelligence of any nature
by wire, radio, optical or other electronic means" (47 CFR 201.2[k]).  The
definition of telecommunications used by the Federal Communications
Commission (FCC) differs somewhat: i.e., "the transmission, between and
among points specified by the user, of information of the user's choosing,
without change in the form or content of the information as sent and
received" (47 U.S.C. Sec. 153 [43])."

-----Original Message-----
From: Hal Folts [mailto:[email-masked]]
Sent: Thursday, April 04, 2002 8:34 PM
To: Gunn, Janet NE
Cc: [email-masked]
Subject: RE: [Ieprep] "IEPREP" priority value for Resource-Priority

-----Original Message-----
From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]]On Behalf Of Gunn,
Janet NE
Sent: Thursday, April 04, 2002 7:43 PM
To: 'James M. Polk'; [email-masked]
Subject: RE: [Ieprep] "IEPREP" priority value for Resource-Priority

I've also worked with people who used "telecommunications" to mean "data
communications" (including the LAN, which annoyed the h&** out of me) and
"telephony" to mean voice.  
 
I think the usage is very non-standardized, and whatever we decide, SOMEONE
will think we meant something different. 
 
Janet, where have you been. I have been in the telecommunications business
for over forty years now and the definition is very clear.
Telecommunications is a means of conveying communications and information
via electrical means, including telegraphy, data communications, wireless,
telephony, etc. Let's not try to be clever and try to define new terms.
Telecommunications is not restricted to voice only. Data Communications is a
subset of telecommunications. The ITU International Telecommunication Union
was founded in 1863 when Marconi started to send radio waves and morse
invented his code. Let's not waste anymore time on this issue!!

-----Original Message-----
From: James M. Polk [ mailto:[email-masked] <mailto:[email-masked]> ]
Sent: Monday, March 25, 2002 1:24 PM
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [Ieprep] "IEPREP" priority value for Resource-Priority

Ken, 

"Tele" means 'over some(long) distance(s)' -- so strictly speaking
(writing), you're correct with your intention. But most of us in this
community know there is a difference in most networks - especially in closed
networks like enterprises where most of us work - between Telecommunications
and Datacommunications. The former means "voice", the latter means
"everything else". FTP, SMTP and HTTP (3 desirable applications from your
ID)  for example will always fall under the "Datacommunications" side of
this categorization, not to the Telecommunications side. I would consider
"communications" to be a better word than "Telecom", "Datacom", "Transfer",
or any others I've heard or read or thought of. I'm looking at it to relieve
confusion on  limiting focus to only voice (which you state as not being
your desires here, which I agree with BTW)

Hal 

James M. Polk
Consulting Engineer
Office of the CTO

Cisco Systems
2200 East President George Bush Turnpike 
Richardson, TX  75082 USA
w) 972.813.5208
f)  972.813.5280
www.cisco.com <http://www.cisco.com/>

---

From: "James M. Polk" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 11:50:05 -0500

Stephen

At 10:31 AM 4/8/2002 -0400, Perschau, Stephen wrote: 
>
> Here are the definitions for telecommunications our Convergence Working Group
> (Established by the NSC) used.  I do not believe that either definition
> limits telecommunications to just "voice"
>  
> "The term telecommunications is defined by the OSTP and the NSC regulations
> as: {A}ny transmission, emission, or reception of signs, signals, writing,
> images, graphics, and sounds or intelligence of any nature by wire, radio,
> optical or other electronic means (47 CFR 201.2[k]).  

Does this include Cable TV transmission and reception from a company like Cox
or Cablevision? What about Satellite transmission and reception like DirecTV
and Dish? Does this include the copying of an existing VCR tape to another VCR
tape in another Recorder unit?

>
> The definition of telecommunications used by the Federal Communications
> Commission (FCC) differs somewhat: i.e., the transmission, between and among
> points specified by the user, of information of the user s choosing, without
> change in the form or content of the information as sent and received (47
> U.S.C. Sec. 153 [43])."

This would literally not omit smoke signals as telecommunications... or talking
through air without electrical mediums in between... or a user sending a print
job to their serial attached printer from their standalone (as in not connected
to the Internet and has no modem) computer... wouldn't this also include a user
burning CD-R copy of anything in that burner is external to the computer?

I don't mean to be funny, but the above examples are used my most every day and
I just want to know what the bounds are of the definition of
Telecommunications, because it appears to me that since Telecommunications was
early in organization, most organizations involved in what I consider normal
voice transmission over some distance merely included (seemingly) everything
else and no one really told them they couldn't.

I'd thing it'd be hard to get too many people to agree that the NBC broadcast
of "West Wing" or "Friends" either over the airwaves or via Cable TV connect as
Telecommunications; equally true about printing to a locally attached printer
from a standalone PC....