Subject: Re: [ietf-smtp] the elephant never forgets, or DRUMS and 821 vs 822 syntax

From: "John Levine" <[email-masked]>
Date: 1 Jul 2018 10:06:52 -0500

In article <E7879D210B2E1B7EC51557CA@PSB> you write:
>suggest that he review the recent thread on ietf-smtp
>(https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-smtp) and, if they
>can be found and searched (I suspect they cannot) the archives
>of the mailing list for the long-gone DRUMS WG to understand the
>history of this issue.

The IETF's IMAP server has 1277 messages in its DRUMS folder, from
1995 to 2001.

They all seem to be in the new combined archive, too.

R's,
John

---

From: John C Klensin <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 01 Jul 2018 14:13:52 -0400

--On Sunday, July 1, 2018 10:06 -0500 John Levine
<[email-masked]> wrote:

>> of the mailing list for the long-gone DRUMS WG to understand
>> the history of this issue.
> 
> The IETF's IMAP server has 1277 messages in its DRUMS folder,
> from 1995 to 2001.
> 

Excellent.  However I tried to find the archive (possibly via
the former WG list), I got a bad link and assumed the worst.

    john

---

From: "John R Levine" <[email-masked]>
Date: 1 Jul 2018 13:32:27 -0500

> the former WG list), I got a bad link and assumed the worst.

There's definitely a lot of bit rot in old pages on the IETF web site.

Regards,
John Levine, [email-masked], Taughannock Networks, Trumansburg NY
Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly

---

From: "Randall Gellens" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2018 07:34:14 -0700

On 30 Jun 2018, at 19:04, Randall Gellens wrote:

> I might have DRUMS archived but would have to verify that I do and 
> that it's readable by a client currently runnable.

I have from March 5, 1996 through Jan 7, 1999 in a Eudora mailbox, which 
is pretty much a "standard" Unix mbox.  I might have older or newer 
stuff in other mailboxes, I can take a look.

--Randall

---

From: Dave Crocker <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2018 07:57:01 -0700

> stuff in other mailboxes, I can take a look.

Hmmm.

Perhaps we should try to aggregate as many email-related archives as we 
can still find, and make them available at a single location?  Not sure 
where to stash them for public access.

(I'm tempted to offer emailhistory.org, but would be delighted for a 
better venue.)

d/

-- 
Dave Crocker
Brandenburg InternetWorking
bbiw.net

---

From: John C Klensin <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2018 11:19:31 -0400

You missed the follow-up note from, IIR, John Levine, who was
successful in finding an apparently-complete version/set on the
IETF site.  I made the mistake of going through one link looking
for it and, when that failed, giving up rather than assuming
there might be better links elsewhere.

So thanks, but OBE.

     john

--On Thursday, July 5, 2018 07:34 -0700 Randall Gellens
<[email-masked]> wrote:

>> I might have DRUMS archived but would have to verify that I
>> do and  that it's readable by a client currently runnable.
> 
> I have from March 5, 1996 through Jan 7, 1999 in a Eudora
> mailbox, which is pretty much a "standard" Unix mbox.  I might
> have older or newer stuff in other mailboxes, I can take a
> look.
> 
> --Randall

---

From: John C Klensin <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2018 11:24:09 -0400

--On Thursday, July 5, 2018 07:57 -0700 Dave Crocker
<[email-masked]> wrote:

>> mailbox, which  is pretty much a "standard" Unix mbox.  I
>> might have older or newer  stuff in other mailboxes, I can
>> take a look.
> 
> Hmmm.
> 
> Perhaps we should try to aggregate as many email-related
> archives as we can still find, and make them available at a
> single location?  Not sure where to stash them for public
> access.
> 
> (I'm tempted to offer emailhistory.org, but would be delighted
> for a better venue.)

I'd be tempted to suggest the IETF "non-WG mailing list"
collection -- because those archives are about as "non-WG" as it
is possible to get -- but recent conversions on another
topic/list have led me to doubt whether the current IESG
understands what people with a long-term interest in history
mean when they say "archival".

Perhaps, if you still have good connections with such people,
you could inquire of them and maybe promote another missive or
presentation to the IETF about the latter's obligations in that
area.

best,
     john