Subject: Re: in memoriam

From: "Jim Fleming" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 09:48:39 -0500

----- Original Message -----
From: "TOMSON ERIC" <[email-masked]>

> 2.Stop advertising America ; the Internet has not been limited to American
users for years now (*).

In my opinion, the reverse is the case. I believe that it is time
for non-U.S. citizens to be identified as such on America's Internet
and they should not be allowed to freely use America's Internet to
market their protocols and other developments without the proper
customs clearances and work visas. Americans have let their guard
down, they have been far too polite. It is time to close the network
borders and make them as secure as the physical borders.

The Next Generation Internet will be built in America, by Americans, for
Americans.
You are welcome to attempt to fly here and clear immigrations to see what it
looks like.
You are also welcome to continue to play with the "toy" IPv4 technology.

The "toy" IPv4 Internet is a sewer.
IPv8 is designed to be a swamp to cover the sewer.
IPv16 is the "high-ground"....

...here are some links...

Jim Fleming
http://www.unir.com
Mars 128n 128e
http://www.unir.com/images/architech.gif
http://www.unir.com/images/address.gif
http://www.unir.com/images/headers.gif
http://www.ntia.doc.gov/ntiahome/domainname/130dftmail/unir.txt
http://msdn.microsoft.com/downloads/sdks/platform/tpipv6/start.asp
http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/ietf/Current/msg12213.html
http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/ietf/Current/msg12223.html

---

From: TOMSON ERIC <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 16:14:34 +0200

Jim,

1.Please try to be more constructive on this mailing list.
2.Stop advertising America ; the Internet has not been limited to American users for years now (*).
3.In my humble opinion (only one 6.000.000.000th of the world's opinions) you can keep your opinions for you.

:o)

(*) please have a look at the ISOC web site and count how many non-american ISOC chapters exist in the world today.

-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Fleming [mailto:[email-masked]]

In my opinion, all of the IETF leaders, especially those who are U.S.
citizens,
should take a long time to take a long look at what they have not helped to
accomplish with their ICANN. The world will no doubt route around you
with the Next Generation Internet, InfiniBAND, etc. You can stand firm in
your convictions to censor and to restrict access to the legacy root name
servers, which are now largely irrellevent. As our President Bush and many
of the Congressional leaders have noted, Americans stand strong and will
move forward and will innovate and compete, and show the world they are
united. New.Net and other companies stand as a shining memorial to the
spirit of the American people and American ISPs willing to stand up to the
ICANN/IETF machine. You have not defeated us.

Jim Fleming
http://www.in-addr.info
3:219 INFO

----- Original Message -----
From: "Fred Baker" <[email-masked]>

> At 06:05 PM 10/18/2001, Einar Stefferud wrote:
> >What I think is a real shame is that ICANN might be mistakenly
> >considered by some people to to be a monument to Jon Postel...
>
> with all due respect, would you mind if I spent a few minutes thinking
> about Jon, the good things he did and left, and the good things we can do
> and leave while standing on his shoulders?
>
> Take this other stuff somewhere else. I don't need you to ruin my day.
>

---

From: Randy Bush <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 10:52:27 -0700

> To: "'Jim Fleming'" <[email-masked]>

please do not feed the trolls.  they do not digest the food and just puke on
the public floor

randy

---

From: "Jose Manuel Arronte Garcia" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 12:20:06 -0500

I would like to know who do you refer as trolls...

jmag/

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 14:34:55 -0400

> I would like to know who do you refer as trolls...

http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/jargon/html/entry/troll.html

---

From: Alexandre Dulaunoy <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2001 00:23:49 +0200 (CEST)

Dear,

Could the IETF mailing-list be moderated for off-topics comments ?

The board of trustee of the ISOC is international.
http://www.isoc.org/isoc/general/trustees/board.shtml

The joining of the IETF is open and major standard are coming from the
IETF and are created by people all over the world.

Limiting network by boundaries is like limiting software by patents.

Your opinion is your opinion, but please stop to use IETF as a media.

Alex

---

From: "Jim Fleming" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2001 18:58:29 -0500

First some general questions....

Do you think that non-U.S. citizens should be able to use U.S. network
facilities
for their employment, without any visa, work-permit, etc. ?
What do you think ? Do you like having the U.S. freedom to express your
opinion?

Do you think that U.S. companies should continue to employ non-U.S. citizens
while laying off U.S. citizens ?
What do you think ? Do you like having the U.S. freedom to express your
opinion?

Do you think that non-U.S. citizens should be allowed to be freely
"imported"
by large multi-national companies, to freely work on the Internet with no
identification
that they are not U.S. citizens ?
What do you think ? Do you like having the U.S. freedom to express your
opinion?

Do you think that non-U.S. citizens should be allowed to freely roam around
in
cyberspace on U.S. networks from outside of the U.S. ? Why should the U.S.
Government focus on physical immigration and ignore cyber immigration ?
...or, Do you think that all of the borders of the U.S. (both physical and
cyber)
should be opened up and anyone will be allowed to roam around as they
please?
What do you think ? Do you like having the U.S. freedom to express your
opinion?

More specific to ICANN and the IETF....

What major standards has the IETF produced ?

What has ICANN accomplished ? major or minor...

Do you think that the U.S. Department of Commerce,under advice from ICANN,
should continue to support so-called ccTLDs in the legacy root name servers
with little or no knowledge of who the people are behind those TLDs ?

Do you think that the so-called ccTLDs should pay exactly the same as all
other
TLDs to be listed in the legacy root name servers ? An ASCII string is an
ASCII
string after all. By the way, A stands for American in ASCII.

What do you think ? Do you like having the U.S. freedom to express your
opinion?

Why does the IETF always focus on censorship ?

Why does ICANN censor U.S. companies from the legacy root name servers
operated largely under the direction of the U.S. Department of Commerce.

Will anyone mind if the President of the United States orders that ALL of
the
legacy root name servers be operated within the U.S. and that ONLY U.S.
companies be allowed to add TLDs to those servers ?
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2001/10/print/20011016-12.html
Executive Order
Critical Infrastructure Protection in the Information Age

Jim Fleming
http://www.in-addr.info
3:219 INFO

---

From: "Jim Fleming" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2001 15:00:04 -0500

----- Original Message -----
> http://www.isoc.org/isoc/general/trustees/board.shtml

[email-masked]
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------

I am not sure how "international" the ISOC Board of Trustees is.
It appears to be a small circle of Vint Cerf's friends to this reader.

Some of the people came directly from MCI. Some of the people
appear to be the chosen ones given TLDs by ICANN. Yes, it
appears that some of the people are not U.S. citizens, and I
suppose that makes them "international", but only with respect to
the United States, whom they all appear to be happy to use as
their Internet audience, as opposed to the people where they live.

My point was simple, I do not think the American people need to
continue to be "used" by these "international" groups. The American
people are quite capable of building their own Internet without the
influence of these people. Likewise, America should have no
obligation or right to intervene in the Internet developments in all the
other countries, unless asked. I do not believe that Americans as a
whole have asked the Internet Society to run their lives.

On October 25, 2001, all Americans will have the technology in
their hands to route around the Internet Society, ICANN and the IETF.
If the Internet Society chooses to censor that view, then they will
likely have a lot of Americans reacting to that censorship. Why Vint Cerf's
ICANN has been allowed to censor the TLD name space is beyond
comprehension. The same can be said for Jon Postel before him. Let's
hope that people empowered in the coming days, come to their collective
senses and end the censorship of the I* organizations.

Jim Fleming
Why gamble with a .BIZ Lottery? Start a real .BIZ Today !
http://www.DOT-BIZ.com
0:212 - BIZ World

---

From: Petr Baudis <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 08:25:18 +0100

> First some general questions....
First, why do you Cc: so much ppl?

> facilities for their employment, without any visa, work-permit, etc. ?  What
> do you think ? Do you like having the U.S. freedom to express your opinion?
U.S. citizens do the same with non-U.S. network facilities. It's called
globalization.  U.S. freedom? Excuse me? You will maybe wonder, but for a lot
of us foreigners, U.S. freedom is just a poor myth, and we are happy we are
*outside* U.S., especially for shits like DMCA, SSSCA etc. But that's purely
offtopic ;).

> while laying off U.S. citizens ?  What do you think ? Do you like having the
> U.S. freedom to express your opinion?
I'm non-U.S. citizen, so I don't care ;).

> Do you think that non-U.S. citizens should be allowed to be freely "imported"
> identification that they are not U.S. citizens ?  What do you think ? Do you
> like having the U.S. freedom to express your opinion?
Internet is not U.S. affair. U.S. can have some honourable position as an
origin of Internet, but that's all. I guess most of the internet is non-U.S.
actually.  You missed the time, man. Where the web came from? CERN. What's one
of the biggest supporters of IPv6? Nokia. We are getting rid of you, happily
;-). I have nothing against U.S. itself, and I'm glad for such inventions like
Internet, which they gave to the world, but I have much against their laws.
Well, as long as they won't want others to accept them as well... damn,
offtopic once more ;-).

> in cyberspace on U.S. networks from outside of the U.S. ? Why should the U.S.
> cyber) should be opened up and anyone will be allowed to roam around as they
> please?  What do you think ? Do you like having the U.S. freedom to express
> your opinion?
Rotfl :-)). Well, let's close U.S. cyber borders, and ban U.S. users from all
the non-U.S. network. We'll see then.

> with little or no knowledge of who the people are behind those TLDs ?
Non-U.S. root name servers also supports U.S. TLDs. I guess if there would be
reports that the person is not competent, an action would be taken.

> other TLDs to be listed in the legacy root name servers ? An ASCII string is
> an ASCII string after all. By the way, A stands for American in ASCII.
I know one lovely place in the middle of Czech Republic, which is called
America.  However it has nothing to do with U.S. government.  It just contain
word 'America' in its name.  Going to prohibit use of this word or bind it with
U.S. government?

> What do you think ? Do you like having the U.S. freedom to express your
Why the hell they shouldn't?

> Why does the IETF always focus on censorship ?
Maybe they want to prevent it?

> operated largely under the direction of the U.S. Department of Commerce.
Eh? Please explain.

> Will anyone mind if the President of the United States orders that ALL of the
> Executive Order Critical Infrastructure Protection in the Information Age
Sorry, no time to read it all, but if you are true, U.S. is going to
self-destruct itself. Economic of U.S. is obviously dependent on export, and
also on Internet.  So if you will isolate U.S. on the Internet this way, so
export and Internet won't be able to be connected anymore. That's going to
break you, imho.

-- 

				Petr "Pasky" Baudis

UN*X programmer, UN*X administrator, hobbies = IPv6, IRC
Real Users hate Real Programmers.
Public PGP key, geekcode and stuff: http://pasky.ji.cz/~pasky/