Subject: in memoriam

From: Randy Bush <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 11:54:02 -0700

lest we forget on whose shoulders we stand, jon postel died three years ago
today.

randy

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From: Randy Bush <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 21:49:05 -0700

it is important to pass the culture and people on to the students.
and those of us of later age have to think what it means to us.  
you were in hospital, and i had my heart attack two months later.
will we have contributed to constructive change even a fraction
of what jon did?  some days i have hope.

randy

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From: "Jim Fleming" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 03:06:14 -0500

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Randy Bush" <[email-masked]>
To: "Toru Takahashi" <[email-masked]>
Cc: "ietf" <[email-masked]>
Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2001 11:49 PM
Subject: Re: in memoriam

> of what jon did?  some days i have hope.

The ICANN/IETF "culture" of having self-appointed leaders restrict
the access to scarce resources (for their personal gain) is exactly the
culture most of the world is opposing in the Middle East. The resource
there is oil, and the people are suppressed by leaders who hand down
control from one generation to the next, via a shadowy network of
insiders.

In my opinion, Americans are working hard to show the world that
their culture of democracy and capitalism is a better way to go. On
October 25, 2001, Microsoft will help to promote that "culture".

While you are of course free to promote your ICANN "culture", I
think people around the world will eventually choose freedom. If they
do not, then they have themselves to blame. They now will have a choice.

Jim Fleming
http://www.unir.com
Mars 128n 128e
http://www.unir.com/images/architech.gif
http://www.unir.com/images/address.gif
http://www.unir.com/images/headers.gif
http://www.ntia.doc.gov/ntiahome/domainname/130dftmail/unir.txt
http://msdn.microsoft.com/downloads/sdks/platform/tpipv6/start.asp
http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/ietf/Current/msg12213.html
http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/ietf/Current/msg12223.html

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From: Lloyd Wood <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 11:43:47 +0100 (BST)

> it is important to pass the culture and people on to the students.

you mean like the open communication of dnsext/namedroppers?
what culture are you passing on there, exactly?

(onesided rant at http://cr.yp.to/djbdns/namedroppers.html )

I've always thought that piety lies in actions, rather than words.

> of what jon did?  some days i have hope.

This does sound hopeful. After all

              Piety is the only proper and adequate relief of
              decaying man.                         --Rambler.

L.

we are all decaying; in the long run, we are all dead.

<[email-masked]>PGP<http://www.ee.surrey.ac.uk/Personal/L.Wood/>

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From: Toru Takahashi <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 11:36:29 +0900

>lest we forget on whose shoulders we stand, jon postel died three years ago
Randy,

yesterday Japan time 16th, I told my students what was Jon's efforts to
live the Internet with showing IETF site.
I remind he sent me email when I was ill in bed and told me "don't read
any email in the bed" I have read that in the hospital bed. Then he died.
I am still alive.

Toru Takahashi

Toru Takahashi [email-masked] HTTP://www.riis.ad.jp/
Chairman, Research Institute for Internet Strategies, Inc.RIIS)
Phone: +81-3-5366-2833 Fax: +81-3-5366-2848
3rd Floor, Shinjuku171 Bldg, Shinjuku 1-7-1, Shinjuku-ku, Tokyo
160-0022 JAPAN
------------------------------------------------------------------
Vice-president, Internet Association, Japan (IAjapan)
Professor, Tama Art University, Information Design Division

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From: Randy Bush <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 08:51:05 -0700

> ...

apologies.  i did not intend to post to the list.  what is respectful
in private can be smarmy and somewhat hubritic in public.

randy

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From: Einar Stefferud <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 01:05:48 -0700

Now that you have put the subject on the table...

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>in private can be smarmy and somewhat hubritic in public.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

What I think is a real shame is that ICANN might be mistakenly
considered by some people to to be a monument to Jon Postel...

Actually, Jon's proper monument would be the entire content of
his beloved RFC series, which should certainly be enshrined
and preserved in his memory, in read only archives on the net,
and on CD and DVD as a Library Edition..

Best;-)...\Stef

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From: "Jim Fleming" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 08:34:13 -0500

----- Original Message -----
From: "Einar Stefferud" <[email-masked]>
> considered by some people to to be a monument to Jon Postel...

In my opinion, ICANN has turned out to be exactly what Jon had intended.
You were present at the same meeting I was where he disclosed his intention
to appoint a Board of people, whom, he described as, "Not the kind of people
who would want their names on the Internet.". It is my opinion, that Jon
knew
that the IPv4 Internet was aging and needed to be handed to someone to be
carted away, and buried in a land-fill. ICANN is doing an excellent job of
that.
It will not be long and people will likely be able to say, "IPv4?...Oh, no
one
goes there any more....". At best, IPv4 will be a convienant interconnect
for
private home networks, for legacy intranets, for the embedded WAN-based
networks that can not be easily changed, and for third-world countries who
traditionally lag behind the U.S. in technology. ICANN will have a ready
audience there, but not in the U.S. where companies like New.Net have
rallied the major ISPs and added 30 new TLDs to ICANN's 2 which still
do not work.

Jim Fleming
http://www.in-addr.info
3:219 INFO

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From: Joe Touch <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 10:13:07 -0700

> lest we forget on whose shoulders we stand, jon postel died three years ago

FYI, USC/ISI has create the Postel Center for Experimental Networking 
(PCEN) to carry forward Jon's stewardship of the Internet, to perform 
"Network research in service to the Internet community."

Further information on the center, and how you can help contribute to 
its endowment to support scholars and students in fulfilling this 
mission can be found at:

	http://www.postel.org/

FWIW, his birthday was August 6, a day I prefer to use to celebrate his 
legacy to the Internet. :-)

Joe Touch
Director, PCEN

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From: Fred Baker <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 07:28:02 +1000

>considered by some people to to be a monument to Jon Postel...

with all due respect, would you mind if I spent a few minutes thinking 
about Jon, the good things he did and left, and the good things we can do 
and leave while standing on his shoulders?

Take this other stuff somewhere else. I don't need you to ruin my day.

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From: "Jim Fleming" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 18:23:16 -0500

In my opinion, all of the IETF leaders, especially those who are U.S.
citizens,
should take a long time to take a long look at what they have not helped to
accomplish with their ICANN. The world will no doubt route around you
with the Next Generation Internet, InfiniBAND, etc. You can stand firm in
your convictions to censor and to restrict access to the legacy root name
servers, which are now largely irrellevent. As our President Bush and many
of the Congressional leaders have noted, Americans stand strong and will
move forward and will innovate and compete, and show the world they are
united. New.Net and other companies stand as a shining memorial to the
spirit of the American people and American ISPs willing to stand up to the
ICANN/IETF machine. You have not defeated us.

Jim Fleming
http://www.in-addr.info
3:219 INFO