Subject: Re: Netmeeting - NAT issue

From: "J. Noel Chiappa" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 13:21:35 -0500

> From: Keith Moore <[email-masked]>

    > in a just world, the NAT vendors would all be sued out of existence for
    > the harm they've done to the Internet. in the real world, if you can
    > hire a famous personality to advertise your product on TV, then by
    > definition it must work well.

The last time I was this hard-headed about a technology I thought was a bad
idea technically, the company I was associated with never really recovered
(although there were other problems too).

The world has voted with the wallets (if not their feet).

Deal with it.

	Noel

---

From: Keith Moore <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 15:29:08 -0500

> (although there were other problems too).

notice I did say "in a just world".  I don't pretend that this world 
is just.  If you want to make money, you have to understand that the
economic environment we live in favors those who do harm.  You can 
choose whether or not to do harm (and to what degree), but it doesn't 
help to pretend that the market will reward you for doing good.

> Deal with it.

likewise.

Keith

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: 22 Mar 2002 02:15:51 -0000

> help to pretend that the market will reward you for doing good.

It seems like your quarrel lies more with the non-total honesty of NAT
vendors (or the ad agencies they use) than anything intrinsic to NATs.
Of course, there is the possibility that if they were totally honest,
and marketed their devices as "Enabling appliances for selected Internet
services" that they'd STILL make money (and then you'd have no one to
blame).

--gregbo

---

From: james woodyatt <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 19:16:44 -0800

> services" that they'd STILL make money (and then you'd have no one to

Please read the warning below and keep NAT products away from kids and 
children who are not old enough to understand the risks of network 
address translation:

	"INTERNET ARCHITECTURE BOARD WARNING: Using Network Address
	Translators Causes Loss of Routing Transparency and may Complicate
	Application Protocol Interoperability in the Internet."

Thank you!

--
j h woodyatt <[email-masked]>
"please network responsibly."