Subject: how to take minutes

From: Randy Presuhn <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 17:54:25 -0700 (PDT)

Hi -

Relatively few WG minute takers pay much
attention to the Mortimer/Agnes/Duane bullet in
http://www.ietf.org/instructions/minutes.html

Is it time to update the web page to reflect actual practice?

Might it be easier to get people to take minutes if they
realized that we're not asking for blow-by-blow transcripts?

Some of these meeting notes that capture (some of) the words
but miss the point of the discussion.

 ------------------------------------------------------
 Randy Presuhn          BMC Software, Inc.  1-3141
 [email-masked]  2141 North First Street
 Tel: +1 408 546-1006   San José, California 95131  USA
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 My opinions and BMC's are independent variables.
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From: Scott Brim <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 21:25:21 -0400

> but miss the point of the discussion.

That last point is a useful one, but when I can't be at a meeting I
strongly prefer blow-by-blow transcripts, even babbling, over just
results.  I want Meeting Notes with enough detail that I can pick out
the motivations and other nuances.  "Minutes", for the Proceedings,
should not exclude them.  

Sure, let's update some web page, and perhaps an RFC.

Thanks ... Scott

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From: Pekka Savola <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 08:43:24 +0300 (EEST)

> the motivations and other nuances.  "Minutes", for the Proceedings,

I haven't written minutes for any IETF meeting myself, so perhaps I 
shouldn't comment.  But on the page:

'They should not follow a "Mortimer said," then "Agnes said," then "Duane
said," format, nor should they contain a detailed list of changes to a
document. While these forms may be helpful to the folks who actually
attend the sessions, they are less helpful to those who have a more
general interest in the groups' activities.'

This makes an implicit assumption that anyone reading minutes is only 
"generally interested" in the group's activities.

I thought attendance in meetings for w.g. members was not supposed to be
necessary in the IETF?

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
Netcore Oy                   not those you stumble over and fall"
Systems. Networks. Security.  -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords

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From: Dominic Pinto <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 08:27:58 +0100

Minutes or notes of meetings should record the issues discussed,
proposals, the differences and agreements, conclusions or decisions,
disagreement, together with any further or follow-up action to be taken,
by whom, and by when.

All participants should as far as possible be identified and recorded.
If clarity is assisted the it should be noted who made proposals,
agreed, or disagreed, etc.

-- 
Dominic Pinto
-------------
Senior Associate Telesphere Limited
http://www.telespherelimited.com

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From: Donald Eastlake 3rd <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 08:36:25 -0400 (EDT)

On Wed, 24 Jul 2002, Pekka Savola wrote:

> Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 08:43:24 +0300 (EEST)
> From: Pekka Savola <[email-masked]>
> To: Scott Brim <[email-masked]>
> Cc: [email-masked]
> Subject: Re: how to take minutes
>

You don't have to attend meetings because final decisons can't be made
at meetings. Any tentative decisions or meeting consensus must be posted
to the mailing list and the mailing list consensus is the actual
decision.

Donald
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