Subject: MBONE access?

From: Hadmut Danisch <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 20:38:06 +0100

Hi,

I'd like to watch the MARID BOF on mbone, 
but unfortunately my IP provider does not 
support multicast. 

Can anyone give me a hint about where to get
an mbone tunneling access point?

regards
Hadmut

---

From: Joe Abley <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 16:18:42 -0500

> an mbone tunneling access point?

If you find an answer, telling this list would be good.

In the past the answer has been "you don't", often coupled with 
enthusiastic statements about the mbone being in full production, and 
tunnels no longer being necessary.

Joe

---

From: Hadmut Danisch <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 22:29:33 +0100

> tunnels no longer being necessary.

Please tell me you're kidding...

I just phoned the hotline of my provider T-DSL/T-Online.
They didn't even know what I was talking about. All they
said is that they can't help if I'm using Linux, because that
operating system is not supported. I'd have to call a
0190 number (62ct / min), which I did. Listening to the
wait queue music for about 1,5 minutes. Then there was a Lady
who also hasn't ever heard about this and couldn't imagine
what I was talking about...

Hadmut

---

From: Melinda Shore <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 16:54:45 -0500

> tunnels no longer being necessary.

I contacted my ISP last week about getting multicast routing configured
and they spent days trying to get it working.  They finally called their
equipment vendor, who explained to them that they need someone to route
to them, as well, which was news to them.  I'm now getting an mbone feed
through work (I'm a telecommuter so it wasn't automatic).

You can sometimes get a multicast tunnel terminated by a friendly 
university
department, if you've got such thing, but they're not as happy about 
letting
you pump a lot of traffic through them as they used to be.

BTW, the only multicast stream working during last night's plenary
was the MPEG-1 one, and because of the high bit rate it was very lossy.
The other, lower bitrate streams weren't working and the guy running
the service kind of blew me off (and I quote: "watch the video in a
couple weeks after we get back").  If the problem recurs during today's
sessions, please send email to them at [email-masked] so
they'll see that I'm not a lone crank.

Melinda

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 14:24:23 -0800 (PST)

> Please tell me you're kidding...

I doubt it. If you'll pardon the pun, there's a fairly major disconnect here.

> what I was talking about...

This sort of response is pretty typical, as is simply being ignored.

In the past I've been able to access the mbone from Harvey Mudd College down
the street from where I live. However, each time I've done this the networking
staff there has had to struggle to get it working. And this time I didn't ask
until it was too late - a recent change to some upstream router has broken
things and it probably won't be fixed until sometime next week. 

I'm all for eating our own dog food, but IMO workable remote access is more
important.

				Ned

---

From: "JORDI PALET MARTINEZ" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 07:32:31 +0900

In addition to multicast, today we should consider other inexpensive streaming solutions available even with IPv6 support. They allow to broadcast the event with lower bandwidths for those that can't get multicast, or don't have the bandwidth to support high bit rates.

Regards,
Jordi

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Melinda Shore" <[email-masked]>
To: "Joe Abley" <[email-masked]>
Cc: <[email-masked]>
Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 6:54 AM
Subject: Re: MBONE access?

> they'll see that I'm not a lone crank.

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---

From: Iljitsch van Beijnum <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 23:35:30 +0100

On 3-mrt-04, at 22:54, Melinda Shore wrote:

> couple weeks after we get back").

I got a similar-spirited reaction after I posted this to the list on 
nov 18/19:

"As long as we're bitching about the network: would it be possible to 
start doing some unicast streaming of sessions in the future? Access to 
multicast hasn't gotten significantly better the past decade, but 
streaming over unicast is now routine as the codecs are so much better 
these days, as is typical access bandwidth. I'll happily take 40 kbps 
MPEG-4 audio only; the video is so badly out of sync that it is 
unwatchable most of the time anyway."

Because I really wanted to follow yesterday's multi6 session, I 
arranged for some ad-hoc streaming. Kurtis Lindqvist was kind enough to 
provide me with an audio/video feed, which I ran through a streaming 
server. Despite the fact that we used a microphone built into the 
camera the audio was workable, although the video wasn't all that 
useful because of the low resolution and mounting limitations.

I think we should consider streaming audio over unicast for all 
sessions. There are already microphones in all rooms, right? As this is 
only 32 kbps (you can go even lower) and any laptop with audio in and 
suitable software can provide the feed, and there is little or no need 
to attend to anything during steaming, I'm sure it's possible to work 
out the logistics.

---

From: Joel Jaeggli <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 15:21:56 -0800 (PST)

> they'll see that I'm not a lone crank.

From the places we are able able to monitor the h.261/mpeg-1/mpeg-4 were 
all making it to the US. but the abilene router proxy was down last night 
so we had less information then we would otherwise have had. It's very 
hard to run a camera, monitor the recording and debug someone elses 
network in the United States from Korea.

For what it's worth I've been mirroring the recordings to our ftp server 
at the UO as fast as I can, the wed plenary should be there by midnight 
pst on wed.

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Joel Jaeggli  	       Unix Consulting 	       [email-masked]    
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