Subject: IETF List broken

From: Dean Anderson <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 17:10:07 -0500 (EST)

I've resent the following message now several times, and it doesn't seem
to be working.  Our mail logs indicate it is accepted by the IETF mail
server.  Something seems to be broken with the list.  Other messages are
getting through.

http://info.av8.net/spamstuff/vix-spam-abatement-ietf

Essentially, it refutes an number claims made by Paul Vixie and Vernon
Schryver. 

I'm wondering if there is some inappropriate filtering happening?

		--Dean

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 19:45:11 -0500 (EST)
From: Dean Anderson <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: Principles of Spam-abatement (fwd)

For some reason, this message, sent at 17:43 EST, has not made it to the 
list, or showed up in the list archive, even though a message sent after 
it is in the archive.

http://info.av8.net/spamstuff/vix-spam-abatement-ietf

Mar 12 17:43:34 cirrus sendmail[23157]: i2CMhXMU023157: 
from=<[email-masked]>, size=11824, class=0, nrcpts=2, 
msgid=<[email-masked]>, 
proto=ESMTP, daemon=MTA, relay=cirrus.av8.net [130.105.36.66]
Mar 12 17:44:05 cirrus sendmail[23159]: i2CMhXMU023157: 
to=<[email-masked]>, delay=00:00:31, xdelay=00:00:31, mailer=esmtp, 
pri=71824, relay=ietf-mx.ietf.org. [132.151.6.1], dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent (OK 
id=1B1vNs-0004Wr-00)

This one, sent 20 minutes later, is in the archive, and I've even got the 
copy from the list already.

Mar 12 18:03:05 cirrus sendmail[23522]: i2CN34iB023522: 
from=<[email-masked]>, size=2272, class=0, nrcpts=2, 
msgid=<[email-masked]>, 
proto=ESMTP, daemon=MTA, relay=cirrus.av8.net [130.105.36.66]
Mar 12 18:03:35 cirrus sendmail[23524]: i2CN34iB023522: 
to=<[email-masked]>, delay=00:00:30, xdelay=00:00:30, mailer=esmtp, 
pri=62272, relay=ietf-mx.ietf.org. [132.151.6.1], dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent (OK 
id=1B1vgk-0005zS-00)

Curious....

		--Dean

---

From: Dean Anderson <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 17:53:07 -0500 (EST)

I see the message forwarded today made it through alright.  I would like 
to know what happened to the messages sent yesterday.

		--Dean

---

From: Harald Tveit Alvestrand <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 20:00:13 -0800

A little more patience might actually be a Good Thing.
I have 3 copies of your mail now, the two first-sent ones have the 
following relevant trace entries:

Received: from majordomo by asgard.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.14)
	id 1B2LNj-000618-Jl
	for [email-masked]; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 21:29:39 -0500
Received: from ietf.org ([10.27.2.28])
	by asgard.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.14)
	id 1B1vPe-0006HQ-PP
	for [email-masked]; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 17:45:54 -0500

Received: from majordomo by asgard.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.14)
	id 1B2LSY-0006CS-JN
	for [email-masked]; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 21:34:38 -0500
Received: from ietf.org ([10.27.2.28])
	by asgard.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.14)
	id 1B1x2I-0005If-9B
	for [email-masked]; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 19:29:54 -0500

Now, mail sitting for 24 hours in an internal queue does not make me happy.
But it IS the weekend.

                          Harald

---

From: Nathaniel Borenstein <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 10:30:13 -0500

On Mar 13, 2004, at 11:00 PM, Harald Tveit Alvestrand wrote:

> A little more patience might actually be a Good Thing.....

We really have gotten spoiled, haven't we?  I hope I'm not the only one 
who can remember mail paths that routinely took *weeks* to deliver 
email....  In all the arguments over spam, it's worth taking a moment 
to reflect on the amazing success that had to take place in order to 
get us into this mess!  -- Nathaniel

---

From: Dave Aronson <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 11:08:20 -0500

On Mon March 15 2004 10:30, Nathaniel Borenstein wrote:

 > We really have gotten spoiled, haven't we?  I hope I'm not the only
 > one who can remember mail paths that routinely took *weeks* to
 > deliver email....  In all the arguments over spam, it's worth taking
 > a moment to reflect on the amazing success that had to take place in
 > order to get us into this mess!  -- Nathaniel

...and we had to tell it exactly how to get there (tho of course in 
those days we could find the connections on a fairly simple map), we 
had to whistle the bits into acoustic couplers, and it went uphill both 
ways, AND WE LIKED IT!

-- 
Dave Aronson, Senior Software Engineer, Secure Software Inc.
Email me at: work (D0T) 2004 (@T) dja (D0T) mailme (D0T) org
(Opinions above NOT those of securesw.com unless so stated!)
WE'RE HIRING developers, auditors, and VP of Prof. Services.

---

From: Dean Anderson <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 12:04:58 -0500 (EST)

Clearly, many have an interest in having the IETF mailservers operate
properly and competently.

-- Why were only these messages were held up in the mail spool?  

-- What sort of failure caused these messages to be held up while other
messages of mine (and others) were not held up?

-- Were there any other messages similarly affected? (there doesn't seem
to be)

As I noted directly to John Klensin:

-On Saturday, 13 March, 2004 18:10 -0500 Dean Anderson 
<[email-masked]> wrote:
> Yes. Some are coming through.  I sent a total four messages
> (three unique, one was sent twice) to the list yesterday, and
> two got through.
>
> The message
> http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/ietf/Current/msg24650.html
> was sent twice on Friday, and once on Saturday. Only the one
> sent Saturday  got through.  I sent other messages interleaved
> with the apparently  unsuccessful messages, and those other
> messages were successful.
>
>
> Mar 12 17:43:34  i2CMhXMU023157  not on list archive
> Mar 12 18:03:05  i2CN34iB023522  successful
> Mar 12 19:27:42  i2D0Rgpj025065  not on list archive
> Mar 12 19:45:12  i2D0jBuC025473  successful
> Mar 13 17:03:16  i2DM3Ea4016371  successful (same as two not
> archived) Mar 13 17:10:07  i2DMA7KY016553  successful
>
> All show that the IETF mail server accepted the messages.
> Seems quite strange....