Subject: Reminder: Remote Participation Support for Admin Plenary Tonight

From: Alexa Morris <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2011 13:12:57 -0700

If you are participating in IETF 81 from outside of Quebec City, this  
is a reminder that Meetecho is providing remote participation support  
for tonight's Administrative Plenary. Starting at 16:20, you can view  
the plenary content here: http://www.meetecho.com/ietf81/adminplenary.

Regards,
Alexa

-----------
Alexa Morris / Executive Director / IETF
48377 Fremont Blvd., Suite 117, Fremont, CA  94538
Phone: +1.510.492.4089 / Fax: +1.510.492.4001
Email: [email-masked]

Managed by Association Management Solutions (AMS)
Forum Management, Meeting and Event Planning
www.amsl.com <http://www.amsl.com/>

_______________________________________________
Ietf mailing list
[email-masked]
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf

---

From: Brian E Carpenter <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2011 09:42:50 +1200

Alexa,

Writing from Auckland NZ, I wish to object to the fact that the regular
audio streaming is not avaialble for the plenaries. It's a signficant
inconvenience.

Meetecho requires login and is picky about browser versions and Java versions,
forced me to blindly accept a security certificate, takes a long time to start
up compared to regular streaming, and the sound quality is definitely worse.

I have no objection to it being run in parallel but please restore the regular
streaming for plenaries.

Regards
   Brian Carpenter

On 2011-07-28 08:12, Alexa Morris wrote:
> If you are participating in IETF 81 from outside of Quebec City, this is
> a reminder that Meetecho is providing remote participation support for
> tonight's Administrative Plenary. Starting at 16:20, you can view the
> plenary content here: http://www.meetecho.com/ietf81/adminplenary.
> 
> Regards,
> Alexa
> 
> -----------

---

From: Gonzalo Camarillo <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2011 17:48:52 -0400

Hi,

per the discussion in the jabber room, one issue is that the rtsp, sip,
and tel URIs were not available at the ietf page. They should be made
available so that people can use them without accessing the meetecho web
page if they want.

With respect to the audio quality, I have not checked which codecs they use.

Cheers,

Gonzalo

---

From: Brian E Carpenter <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2011 09:53:20 +1200

> With respect to the audio quality, I have not checked which codecs they use.

I don't know about the codecs, but there is a wireless hop. I'm getting
frequent very short drops as well as slightly buzzy sound and less fidelity
than the parallel session streaming. The voices of people I know well are
harder to recognise.

   Brian

---

From: Martin Rex <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2011 00:00:16 +0200 (MEST)

> audio streaming is not avaialble for the plenaries. It's a signficant

Full ACK.

Although there are rtsp-URLs available for the meetecho audio streams
(which you can only find after logging into Meetecho giving name&EMail),
they're not on the IETF Web site (remote participation), there are
only the Meetecho access URLs listed.

Considering that all regular 8 Audio-Stream _are_still_streaming_
(but they're streaming background noises or after-WG conversations in
the rooms) -- the effort to "fix" the streaming looks like mainly
connecting a cable in the conference hotel.

And the quality of the regular IETF audio streaming is *MUCH* better
than the phone-quality meetecho rtsp stream.

-Martin

---

From: SM <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2011 15:27:44 -0700

Hi Alexa,
>audio streaming is not avaialble for the plenaries. It's a signficant

I would like to add my voice to Brian's objection.  Can the usual 
audio stream also be made available for the plenaries?

Regards,
-sm

---

From: Gonzalo Camarillo <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2011 18:43:11 -0400

Hi,

> than the parallel session streaming. The voices of people I know well are

one aspect to consider is that long play-out buffers increase the audio
quality but also increase the delay. Many people have complained about
not being able to effectively participate in the meetings remotely using
the traditional audio streams because of the long delay. On the other
hand, short play-out buffers reduce the delay but can also reduce the
quality under bad network conditions.

As you said, different situations require different services and having
both services available makes sense.

Cheers,

Gonzalo

---

From: Alexa Morris <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2011 16:51:21 -0700

Brian, SM,

First, I want to reassure you that there is no plan to discontinue the  
regular audio streaming at meetings; indeed, there was every intention  
of providing regular audio streaming for IETF 81, in parallel with the  
support provided by the Meetecho volunteers, but there was some  
miscommunication along the way and, as a result, it was not configured  
as planned. I apologize for that because I now know that I  
inadvertently played a role in that misunderstanding.

Sorry for any inconvenience. Please also understand that the Meetecho  
staff intended to provide additional value, and are in no way  
implicated in this misunderstanding.

Alexa

-----------

---

From: Brian E Carpenter <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2011 12:53:48 +1200

Thanks Alexa!

And certainly the Meetecho service has its value - although those of us
on the end of a very long, thin glass fibre in the South Pacific may
not be able to get the full benefit.

Regards
   Brian Carpenter

On 2011-07-28 11:51, Alexa Morris wrote:
> as planned. I apologize for that because I now know that I inadvertently
> played a role in that misunderstanding.
> 
> staff intended to provide additional value, and are in no way implicated
> in this misunderstanding.
> 
> Alexa
> 
> 
>

---

From: Martin Rex <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2011 03:49:38 +0200 (MEST)

> not be able to get the full benefit.

Admittedly there was an improvement to previous IETFs.

Running Meetecho in a virtual machine with a Linux Live CD
(for the visual part) worked OK, and one single solution provided
access to slides of all presentations at the right time.

In all previous IETFs, only a fraction of the presentations were
available on the datatracker just prior or during the plenary,
and there was a significantly annoying lack of standardized format
(like 2007+ PPT, for which _my_ virtualization approach doesn't work).

-Martin

---

From: SM <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2011 23:13:39 -0700

Hi Alexa,
>regular audio streaming at meetings; indeed, there was every intention

Thanks.

>staff intended to provide additional value, and are in no way

The Meetecho staff were helpful.  They explained how to access the 
Meetecho audio stream.

Regards,
-sm

---

From: Michael Richardson <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2011 11:23:24 -0400

>>>>> "Gonzalo" == Gonzalo Camarillo <[email-masked]> writes:
    >> I don't know about the codecs, but there is a wireless hop. I'm
    >> getting frequent very short drops as well as slightly buzzy sound
    >> and less fidelity than the parallel session streaming. The voices
    >> of people I know well are harder to recognise.

    Gonzalo> one aspect to consider is that long play-out buffers
    Gonzalo> increase the audio quality but also increase the
    Gonzalo> delay. Many people have complained about not being able to
    Gonzalo> effectively participate in the meetings remotely using the

huh? the major delay is the line up at the microphone, not the TCP
queue.

-- 
]       He who is tired of Weird Al is tired of life!           |  firewalls  [
]   Michael Richardson, Sandelman Software Works, Ottawa, ON    |net architect[
] [email-masked] http://www.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca/ |device driver[
   Kyoto Plus: watch the video <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzx1ycLXQSE>
	               then sign the petition.

---

From: Hadriel Kaplan <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2011 19:17:19 -0400

I don't know about the real-time remote participation aspects because I'm at the IETF in QC, but I did use the meetecho recorded sessions for a couple WGs I didn't attend this week and I have to say it was great - better than the mp3 recordings of previous IETFs.  While the mp3 had better audio quality, the meetecho HTML5 recordings had the video, audio, presentation slides and jabber all synchronized and I could skip forward forward/back for all of those which was sweet.

Then when I found out they were doing this on their own dime without IETF paying for it, I was shocked.

Kudos to them.

-hadriel