Subject: IDNA and Multilingual Internet issues and vocabulary after IDNA2008

From: jean-michel bernier de portzamparc <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2011 20:34:43 +0200

IDNA2008 has introduced the need for post IDNA2008 protocol and technology
adaptations in different areas. Several mailing lists are working on such
adaptations. There is a need they know the others' targets and they use the
same terminology with the same meaning.

To that end we have compiled charters and drafts, terminology definitions
and propositions from the different souces involved: IAB, IETF/WG/IDNA2008,
IETF/WG/PRECIS, ICANN/WG/VIP, UNICODE, IUCG, IUTF, ALFA, IANA and Unicode.
The file is http://iucg.org/wiki/IDNS_Common_Glossary.

At this stage we would like to continue compiling suggestions to add to this
document in order to have a comprehensive consolidation of ideas and terms.
Once inputs are stabilized, I will sort all the terms towards an update of
the IANA terminology file. I hope it could help reaching consensuses more
easily if we speak the same language.

Portzamparc

---

From: John C Klensin <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2011 16:38:22 -0400

--On Friday, August 19, 2011 20:34 +0200 jean-michel bernier de
portzamparc <[email-masked]> wrote:

> IDNA2008 has introduced the need for post IDNA2008 protocol
> and technology adaptations in different areas. Several mailing
> lists are working on such adaptations. There is a need they
> know the others' targets and they use the same terminology
> with the same meaning.
 
> To that end we have compiled charters and drafts, terminology
> definitions and propositions from the different souces
> involved: IAB, IETF/WG/IDNA2008, IETF/WG/PRECIS, ICANN/WG/VIP,
> UNICODE, IUCG, IUTF, ALFA, IANA and Unicode. The file is
> http://iucg.org/wiki/IDNS_Common_Glossary.
>...

I'm sorry, but I've had enough of this.

I hesitate to admit that I have read far enough into that
document to have noticed, lest by doing so I add credibility to
it.  However, I observed that it contains rather large blocks of
text excerpted from other materials without any specific
attribution or acknowledgment.  Those materials include several
RFCs and draft-ietf-appsawg-rfc3536bis.  I am an author or major
contributor on several of those.  Especially since I had asked
earlier that any compendium of this sort list terms covered in
other documents, comment on them as you thought appropriate, but
incorporate the definitions themselves only by reference, this
appears to be a willful and deliberate violation of copyrights
held by the IETF Trust and of my copyrights.  The published IETF
Trust terms require explicit licenses for this type of reuse of
non-code elements of RFCs; these definitions are not code.
Those rules either apply to I-Ds as well or you need permission
from the I-D authors for non-IETF uses.  I, at least, have not
given that permission.  I believe the material on your web page
also infringes the copyrights of others, but they will have to
speak for themselves.

The Trustees of the IETF Trust and other rights-holders will
need to speak for themselves but, at least for materials in
which I have rights under relevant copyright law, please
consider this a request to take the document down and to do so
immediately.

I also request that you supply addresses for IUCG, IUTF, ALFA,
and for yourself and any other individuals or organizations that
are included by reference in your use of "we" in the statement
"To that end we have compiled..." so that copyright holders who
believe that the document infringes their rights can have legal
documents delivered and served should they so desire.

Thank you.
   John Klensin

p.s. if this note falls into the hands of any attorneys with
appropriate credentials to practice intellectual property law in
France who would be interested in pursuing an action in this
matter for a portion of any proceeds (the balance to go to
charity) should contact me.

---

From: jean-michel bernier de portzamparc <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2011 01:30:33 +0200

Dear Mr. Klensin,

"we" are Internet and IETF users. This makes a pretty large community. There
are three ways one can do it:

- in surviving with what we (do not) get. Very large part of our community.
- in hacking the internet from the outside on behalf of our right to protect
ourselves from digital ecosystem pollution risks. Small part of our
community.
- in trying to cooperate with you guys and help your inside work with our
outside perspective. Microscopic part of our community. Guess why? Please
read the begining of your mail.

We do it because Jefsey convinced a few of us and the IETF Chair that it had
to be tried. However, if the inside Internet is made of individual's and
ISOC's copyrights and cannot even be discussed and helped, Jefsey will soon
be alone!

Please respond: the ball is your field. Tell me: are we wrong trying to work
in the open, liaise with the IETF and carry a lot of work to be able to
answer you, the happiana, the PRECIS, the VIP people in a consistant way,
also with other open works?

This being said you perfectly know that this

2011/8/19 John C Klensin <[email-masked]>

> without any specific
> RFCs and draft-ietf-appsawg-rfc3536bis.

is wrong. Your name, your RFCs etc. are quoted as such. We do not publish,
we try to draft a pertinent mail to you!

> I am an author or major
> other documents, comment on them as you thought appropriate,

This is correct. But to respond to you, a lot of work must be carried.
Beginning with an enlarged scope to other intricate real needs you did not
consider yet.

Portzamparc

BTW I am not French, I am Breton!

---

From: Marie-France Berny <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2011 02:21:39 +0200

Hi! John,
This seems to be a pretty odd point of yours!  As if every IETF mail had to
list the copyrights of every text or concept it works on or with.

We only are interested in an adequate and coherent multilinguistic
terminology at the IANA. At the end of the day if you want to publish it
under your name you welcome.

I introduced what I hope will close this: WIKI RFC 3271 with an appropriate
comment.

http://idna2010.org
The text John Klensin refers to is the working wiki page:

 *IDNS Common Glossary <http://iucg.org/wiki/IDNS_Common_Glossary>*

 Marie-France

2011/8/20 jean-michel bernier de portzamparc <[email-masked]>

> Dear Mr. Klensin,
>
> "we" are Internet and IETF users. This makes a pretty large community.
> There are three ways one can do it:
>
> - in hacking the internet from the outside on behalf of our right to
> protect ourselves from digital ecosystem pollution risks. Small part of our
> community.
> We do it because Jefsey convinced a few of us and the IETF Chair that it
> had to be tried. However, if the inside Internet is made of individual's and
> Please respond: the ball is your field. Tell me: are we wrong trying to
> work in the open, liaise with the IETF and carry a lot of work to be able to
> _______________________________________________
> iucg mailing list
> [email-masked]
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/iucg
>
>

---

From: "Michel Py" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2011 19:54:48 -0700

[trimmed the cross-post To... field]

John,

In case it was not clear, I encourage you do consider who you are
dealing with on this issue: the sock puppets of JFC Morfin. These
individuals are well-known for their disruptive tactics and their
amazing capabilities at generating rectal discomfort (*) especially for
the French IETFers who do not like the idea of being remotely associated
with them (although I do not even remotely suggest that anyone does, the
possibility does exist).

Please don't feed the trolls.

Thanks
Michel

(*) I hope that the AD who introduced this wording to me in private
recently will have smile.

m.

---

From: Dave Crocker <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2011 22:08:09 -0700

+10

/d

--
Dave Crocker
bbiw.net

via mobile

_____________________________________________
From: Michel Py <[email-masked]>
Sent: Fri Aug 19 19:54:48 PDT 2011
To: IETF <[email-masked]>, John C Klensin <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: [iucg] IDNA and Multilingual Internet issues and vocabulary	afterIDNA2008

John,

Thanks
Michel

m.

_____________________________________________

Ietf mailing list
[email-masked]
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf

---

From: Marie-France Berny <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2011 09:44:38 +0200

Cher Michel,

2011/8/20 Michel Py <[email-masked]>

> individuals are well-known

as "Jefsey's Disciples", or "JEDI"s :-)

> for their disruptive tactics and their
> amazing capabilities at generating rectal discomfort (*)

If this is not an "ad personam"!!!
Beware, the disease usually diagnoses mental rigidity

> especially for

Selon la formule consacrée : "tais-toi et travaille !".You welcome to help
the French language being properly supported. At least the ICANN/WG/VIP just
tries that.

We are just IETF users. I know, as everywhere, the user is the problem!

Sorry for this smile at your architechnical comment:

 you are right!

Marie-France

---

From: Hector Santos <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2011 20:10:42 -0400

Not commenting of the legal stuff,  I have to admit I like the idea of 
the Glossary web site with the consolidation of divest material.  I 
thought it had some awkward reading injection of material that 
probably was not necessary, maybe little unprofessional, but overall 
for such a divest environment on the Internet, the basic Glossary idea 
was interesting that I found to be informational. I think it will 
gives people, especially for the new, a better sense of the global 
connected nature of the various groups. If anything, there was an 
initial perception of commercial interest, but that didn't seem to be 
the case. But your email was definitely presented that way or at least 
its how I read it for a person who didn't know much about all these 
groups.  Maybe didn't help if that was not the intent.

Anyway, I hope the "legal" stuff can be settled.  It would be a 
resource link for me.

jean-michel bernier de portzamparc wrote:
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 

-- 
Sincerely

Hector Santos
http://www.santronics.com