Subject: Re: [xml2rfc] Multiple authors in reference

From: Randy Bush <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 09 Aug 2011 15:07:04 +0900

>> above five, the rfced's deal with the iesg is that the masthead lists
>> an editor and all the rest are in a Contributors or Authors section
> I see.  So the author limit isn't really a "guideline" (as advertised)
> or even a rule, just a backroom "deal".

have you taken your meds today?

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From: Glen Zorn <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 09 Aug 2011 13:05:42 +0700

On 8/8/2011 4:03 PM, Randy Bush wrote:
>> When using <reference> and the document I am referencing has say 20
>>  authors. Is there a way to fill in the <author> field as "John Doe
>> et al" or do I have to list all the 20 authors?
> 

I see.  So the author limit isn't really a "guideline" (as advertised)
or even a rule, just a backroom "deal".  I wonder how many other things
in the IETF are like that...certainly not many, in this age of IESG
transparency ;-).

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From: Glen Zorn <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 09 Aug 2011 14:29:46 +0700

On 8/9/2011 1:53 PM, SM wrote:
> Hi Glen, At 23:05 08-08-2011, Glen Zorn wrote:
>> I see.  So the author limit isn't really a "guideline" (as
>> advertised) or even a rule, just a backroom "deal".  I wonder how
>> many other things
> 
> http://www.rfc-editor.org/policy.html#policy.authlist

says

"There is no rigid limit on the size of this set, but there is likely to
be a discussion if the set exceeds five authors, in which case the right
answer is probably to list one editor."

which seems to be contradicted by Randy's assertion.

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From: Joel Jaeggli <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 9 Aug 2011 01:07:30 -0700

> have you taken your meds today?

http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-rfc-editor-rfc2223bis-08

 2.12 Authors Listed on RFC

      The IESG and IETF have ratified a policy of limiting the number of
      authors listed in the first page header of an RFC.  The specific
      policy is as follows:

      (1)  A small set of author names, with affiliations, may appear on
           the front page header.  These should be the lead author(s)
           who are most responsible for the actual text.  When there are
           many contributors, the best choice will be to list the person
           or (few) persons who acted as document editor(s) (e.g.,"Tom
           Smith, Editor").

           There is no rigid limit on the size of this set, but there is
           likely to be a discussion if the set exceeds five authors, in
           which case the right answer is probably to list one editor.

           The RFC Editor will hold all the people listed on the front

RFC Editor                   Informational                     [Page 13]
 
Internet-Draft        Instructions to RFC Authors          1 August 2004

           page equally responsible for the final form and content of
           the published RFC.  In particular, the "Author's 48 Hours"
           final approval period will require signoff from all listed
           authors.

      (2)  An RFC may include a Contributors section, listing those
           contributors who deserve significant credit for the document
           contents.  The Contributors section is intended to provide a
           level of recognition greater than an acknowledgment and
           nearly equal to listing on the front page.  The choice of
           either, both, or none of Contributor and Acknowledgment
           sections in a particular RFC depends upon the circumstance.

      (3)  The body of an RFC may include an Acknowledgements section,
           in addition to or instead of a Contributors section.  An
           Acknowledgments section may be lengthy, and it may explain
           scope and nature of contributions.  It may also specify
           affiliations.

      (4)  The Author's Address section at the end of the RFC must
           include the authors listed in the front page header.  The
           purpose of this section is to (1) unambiguously define
           author/contributor identity (e.g., the John Smith who works
           for FooBar Systems) and to (2) provide contact information
           for future readers who have questions or comments.

           At the discretion of the author(s), contact addresses may
           also be included in the Contributors section for those
           contributors whose knowledge makes them useful future
           contacts for information about the RFC.

      (5)  The RFC Editor may grant exceptions to these guidelines upon
           specific IESG request or in other exceptional circumstances.

      Finally, it is important to note that the copyright rules
      governing RFC publication [IPC04] require that an RFC must:

           "[acknowledge] all major Contributors.  A major Contributor
           is any person who has materially or substantially contributed
           to the [RFC]."

      The Contributors and Acknowledgment sections fulfill this
      objective.

> _______________________________________________
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> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf
>

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From: Glen Zorn <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 09 Aug 2011 19:53:39 +0700

On 8/9/2011 3:07 PM, Joel Jaeggli wrote:
>>>> above five, the rfced's deal with the iesg is that the masthead
>>>> lists an editor and all the rest are in a Contributors or
>>>> Authors section
>>> advertised) or even a rule, just a backroom "deal".
>> 

Uh-huh, expired ~7 years ago.  A reasonable place to put this rule (if
you wanted to make it a rule) might have been RFC 5741 but it doesn't
seem to be there.

...

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From: Frank Ellermann <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2011 06:55:41 +0200

On 9 August 2011 14:53, Glen Zorn wrote:

> A reasonable place to put this rule (if you wanted to make it a rule)
> might have been RFC 5741 but it doesn't seem to be there.

If you insist on it RFC 5741 (thanks, I didn't know it) has a reference
to <http://www.rfc-editor.org/styleguide.html>.  Admittedly I don't get
why the obscure case of more than five authors is so interesting here:

The really problematic cases are less than one author.

-Frank

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From: Mykyta Yevstifeyev <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2011 08:06:45 +0300

10.08.2011 7:55, Frank Ellermann wrote:
> to<http://www.rfc-editor.org/styleguide.html>.  Admittedly I don't get

Please note that eg. RFC 4357 has 12 authors and only 3 of them listed 
in the header.  These 3 occur in the reference.  RFC Editor, when 
preparing the draft for publication, settles this issue with all 
declared authors.

Some obscure cases happened, for instance, RFC 2989, which has nearly 20 
authors listed in the header.  They all occur in the official format of 
the reference.  The current practice is to list not more than 5 authors, 
but in exceptional cases all will be kept.  Correspondingly, as an 
answer to the question which started this topic, one is obliged to list 
all authors listed in the header in the Reference section.  So I see no 
real problem here.

Mykyta