Subject: RE: [IETF] Petition for "We the People" US Federal Government

From: Sam Crooks <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2013 12:29:15 -0800

petition process: Create a Request for Comment (RFC) process similar to
 the
 IETF's for taking in suggestions for innovation from public.
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Hi Richard,

IETF process may not be ideal, but it is better. More importantly, it
is a grassroots (not industry specific, and totally vendor dominated)
process, that at least considers unsolicited ideas based on merit, not
popularity.

And I bet NIST or GSA or the CTOs office are the right agencies to
implement it.

It is guaranteed to be light years better than a petition website..

Thanks for reading..

Sam Crooks
[email-masked]
From: Richard Barnes
Sent: =E2=80=8E3/=E2=80=8E8/=E2=80=8E2013 11:09 AM
To: Sam Crooks
Cc: Warren Kumari; [email-masked]; [email-masked];
[email-masked]; [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [IETF] Petition for "We the People" US Federal Government
petition process: Create a Request for Comment (RFC) process similar to
the IETF's for taking in suggestions for innovation from public.
I think you may be over-estimating the filtering power of the
Internet-Draft system.

On Thu, Mar 7, 2013 at 2:08 PM, Sam Crooks <[email-masked]> wrote:

> not a Joke, Warren (and IETF).
>
> The petition process is the best I have found to put in unsolicited
> suggestions. The RFI process and public comments are the ways to put in
> solicited comments on some topic.  There is not a good merit-based proces=
s
> to put suggestions and ideas into the government,
>
>
> I am trying to get an effective one created.  The IETF Internet Draft
> process is the most effective I can think of for a grassroots process to
> take input and kill the Internet trolls who hijack such processes..
>
> I would appreciate your help, as well as the rest of the networking
> industry's help, in highlighting the issue to people in the federal
> government who can change it and put in an effective process.
>
> There is innovation going on in the government, and they are starting to
> put in place processes for innovation internally, but the government does
> not have an effective process for gathering ideas from the public and
> validating them based on merit.  The Whitehouse's "We the People" website
> is a popularity contest which occasionally produces interesting things,
> like the recent "Build the Death Star" petition response from the
> Whitehouse.
>
> General Services Administration (GSA) is probably one of the most
> innovative government agencies in relation to IT.  NIST and DHS NPPD and
> the DHS S&T directorates are very innovative as well, particularly in
> regards to cybersecurity and information assurance.  State department as
> well.
>
> Casey Coleman of the GSA writes a great blog on the innovation occurring
> in the government, and is one of the most forward looking CIOs.
> http://gsablogs.gsa.gov/innovation/
>
>
> GSA is trying to innovate.  Read this article:
> http://www.govexec.com/management/2013/03/hunting-great-ideas-should-be-e=
veryday-affair-gsa-chief-says/61674/
>
>
> The Whitehouse is doing some interesting things as well
>
> Hackathons<http://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/2013/03/02/looking-back-white-h=
ouse-hackathon>
> Exposing government data sets Open Government initiative<http://www.white=
house.gov/open/around>
> Data.gov
> Presidential Innovation Fellows program<http://www.whitehouse.gov/innovat=
ionfellows>
>
> Help me highlight a great process that works (at least considerably bette=
r
> than petitions) for collecting and vetting ideas from anybody on how and
> why something should be changed, and perhaps it will be implemented.
>
>
> The petition:  http://wh.gov/G29p <http://wh.gov/G29p>
>
> Regards,
>
> Sam Crooks
> http://www.linkedin.com/in/samcrooks/
>  [email-masked]
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 7, 2013 at 10:22 AM, Warren Kumari <[email-masked]> wrote:
>
>> 'm assuming this is a joke=E2=80=A6 but my subtlety filters are turned d=
own, so
>> who knows...
>>
>> "The Internet Draft process of the IETF works so effectively at filterin=
g
>> out Internet trolls because of the rigor and structure required for a
>> proposal to be submitted."
>>
>> W
>> On Mar 5, 2013, at 9:55 PM, Sam Crooks <[email-masked]> wrote:
>>
>> > Hi all:
>> >
>> > If you agree, please sign this petition.  I'd appreciate your help in
>> crossing the thresholds required for consideration.
>> >
>> > Regards,
>> >
>> > Sam
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Text of the Petition:
>> >
>> > "Create a Request for Comment (RFC) process similar to the IETF's for
>> taking in suggestions for innovation from public.
>> > I believe that the "We the People" initiative is a good idea,
>> grassroots-level suggestions, but a less than ideal implementation for
>> collection of innovation suggestions.
>> >
>> > I propose that the Federal Government implement a process and structur=
e
>> similar to the Internet Engineering Task Force (IETF) Internet Draft and
>> Request For Comment (RFC) processes and organization, which has proven t=
o
>> be *extremely* effective at filtering the Internet trolls, which have
>> hijacked the "We the People" website and at collecting and acting on val=
id
>> innovation proposals from anyone with an idea.
>> >
>> > The Internet Draft process of the IETF works so effectively at
>> filtering out Internet trolls because of the rigor and structure require=
d
>> for a proposal to be submitted.
>> >
>> > http://www.ietf.org"
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > http://wh.gov/G29p
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/create-request-comment-rfc-pro=
cess-similar-ietfs-taking-suggestions-innovation-public/CqHFnjJc
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>> --
>> "Working the ICANN process is like being nibbled to death by ducks,
>> it takes forever, it doesn't make sense, and in the end we're still dead
>> in the water."
>>     -- Tom Galvin, VeriSign's vice president for government relations.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>

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<DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri,sans-serif">Hi Richard,=
<BR><BR>IETF process may not be ideal, but it is better.&nbsp; More importa=
ntly, it is a grassroots (not industry specific, and totally vendor dominat=
ed) process, that at least considers unsolicited ideas based on merit, not =
popularity.<BR><BR>And I bet NIST or GSA or the CTOs office are the right a=
gencies to implement it.<BR><BR><BR><BR>It is guaranteed to be light years =
better than a petition website..<BR><BR>Thanks for reading..<BR><BR>Sam Cro=
oks<BR>[email-masked]<BR></DIV></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr>
<HR>
<SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri,sans-serif; FONT-WEIGH=
T: bold">From: </SPAN><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri,=
sans-serif"><A href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">Richard Barnes</A></SPAN><BR><SPA=
N style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri,sans-serif; FONT-WEIGHT: b=
old">Sent: </SPAN><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri,sans=
-serif">=E2=80=8E3/=E2=80=8E8/=E2=80=8E2013 11:09 AM</SPAN><BR><SPAN style=
=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri,sans-serif; FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To=
: </SPAN><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri,sans-serif"><=
A href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">Sam Crooks</A></SPAN><BR><SPAN sty=
le=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri,sans-serif; FONT-WEIGHT: bold">=
Cc: </SPAN><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri,sans-serif"=
><A href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">Warren Kumari</A>; <A href=3D"mailto:=
[email-masked]">[email-masked]</A>; <A href=3D"mailto:patrick=
[email-masked]">[email-masked]</A>; <A href=3D"mailto:case=
[email-masked]">[email-masked]</A>; <A href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">=
[email-masked]</A></SPAN><BR><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Ca=
libri,sans-serif; FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject: </SPAN><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SI=
ZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri,sans-serif">Re: [IETF] Petition for "We the =
People" US Federal Government petition process: Create a Request for Commen=
t (RFC) process similar to the IETF's for taking in suggestions for innovat=
ion from public.</SPAN><BR><BR></DIV></BODY></HTML>I think you may be over-=
estimating the filtering power of the Internet-Draft system.<div><br></div>=
<div><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Thu, Mar 7, 2013 at 2:08 PM, Sam=
 Crooks <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" tar=
get=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">not a Joke, Warren (and IETF).<div><br></div=
><div>The petition process is the best I have found to put in unsolicited s=
uggestions. The RFI process and public comments are the ways to put in soli=
cited comments on some topic. =C2=A0There is not a good merit-based process=
 to put suggestions and ideas into the government,</div>

<div><br></div><div><br></div><div>I am trying to get an effective one crea=
ted. =C2=A0The IETF Internet Draft process is the most effective I can thin=
k of for a grassroots process to take input and kill the Internet trolls wh=
o hijack such processes..</div>

<div><br></div><div>I would appreciate your help, as well as the rest of th=
e networking industry&#39;s help, in highlighting the issue to people in th=
e federal government who can change it and put in an effective process.</di=
v>

<div><br></div><div>There is innovation going on in the government, and the=
y are starting to put in place processes for innovation internally, but the=
 government does not have an effective process for gathering ideas from the=
 public and validating them based on merit. =C2=A0The Whitehouse&#39;s &quo=
t;We the People&quot; website is a popularity contest which occasionally pr=
oduces interesting things, like the recent &quot;Build the Death Star&quot;=
 petition response from the Whitehouse.</div>

<div><br></div><div>General Services Administration (GSA) is probably one o=
f the most innovative government agencies in relation to IT. =C2=A0NIST and=
 DHS NPPD and the DHS S&amp;T directorates are very innovative as well, par=
ticularly in regards to cybersecurity and information assurance. =C2=A0Stat=
e department as well.</div>

<div><br></div><div>Casey Coleman of the GSA writes a great blog on the inn=
ovation occurring in the government, and is one of the most forward looking=
 CIOs. =C2=A0<a href=3D"http://gsablogs.gsa.gov/innovation/" target=3D"_bla=
nk">http://gsablogs.gsa.gov/innovation/</a></div>

<div>=C2=A0=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div>GSA is trying to innovate. =C2=
=A0Read this article: =C2=A0<a href=3D"http://www.govexec.com/management/20=
13/03/hunting-great-ideas-should-be-everyday-affair-gsa-chief-says/61674/" =
target=3D"_blank">http://www.govexec.com/management/2013/03/hunting-great-i=
deas-should-be-everyday-affair-gsa-chief-says/61674/</a></div>

<div><br></div><div><br></div><div>The Whitehouse is doing some interesting=
 things as well</div><div><br></div><div><a href=3D"http://www.whitehouse.g=
ov/blog/2013/03/02/looking-back-white-house-hackathon" target=3D"_blank">Ha=
ckathons</a></div>

<div>Exposing government data sets <a href=3D"http://www.whitehouse.gov/ope=
n/around" target=3D"_blank">Open Government initiative</a>=C2=A0 <a href=3D=
"http://Data.gov" target=3D"_blank">Data.gov</a></div><div><a href=3D"http:=
//www.whitehouse.gov/innovationfellows" target=3D"_blank">Presidential Inno=
vation Fellows program</a></div>

<div><br></div><div>Help me highlight a great process that works (at least =
considerably better than petitions) for collecting and vetting ideas from a=
nybody on how and why something should be changed, and perhaps it will be i=
mplemented.=C2=A0</div>

<div><br></div><div><br></div><div>The petition: <a href=3D"http://wh.gov/G=
29p" target=3D"_blank">=C2=A0http://wh.gov/G29p</a></div><div><br></div><di=
v>Regards,</div><div><br></div><div>Sam Crooks</div><div><a href=3D"http://=
www.linkedin.com/in/samcrooks/" target=3D"_blank">http://www.linkedin.com/i=
n/samcrooks/</a></div>

<div>
<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">sam.a.crooks@gm=
ail.com</a></div><div class=3D"HOEnZb"><div class=3D"h5"><div><br><br><div =
class=3D"gmail_quote">On Thu, Mar 7, 2013 at 10:22 AM, Warren Kumari <span =
dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">warr=
[email-masked]</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>

<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">&#39;m assuming this is a joke=E2=80=A6 but =
my subtlety filters are turned down, so who knows...<br>
<div><br>
&quot;The Internet Draft process of the IETF works so effectively at filter=
ing out Internet trolls because of the rigor and structure required for a p=
roposal to be submitted.&quot;<br>
<br>
</div>W<br>
<div><div>On Mar 5, 2013, at 9:55 PM, Sam Crooks &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:sam.=
[email-masked]" target=3D"_blank">[email-masked]</a>&gt; wrote:=
<br>
<br>
&gt; Hi all:<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; If you agree, please sign this petition. =C2=A0I&#39;d appreciate your=
 help in crossing the thresholds required for consideration.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Regards,<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Sam<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Text of the Petition:<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &quot;Create a Request for Comment (RFC) process similar to the IETF&#=
39;s for taking in suggestions for innovation from public.<br>
&gt; I believe that the &quot;We the People&quot; initiative is a good idea=
, grassroots-level suggestions, but a less than ideal implementation for co=
llection of innovation suggestions.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; I propose that the Federal Government implement a process and structur=
e similar to the Internet Engineering Task Force (IETF) Internet Draft and =
Request For Comment (RFC) processes and organization, which has proven to b=
e *extremely* effective at filtering the Internet trolls, which have hijack=
ed the &quot;We the People&quot; website and at collecting and acting on va=
lid innovation proposals from anyone with an idea.<br>

&gt;<br>
&gt; The Internet Draft process of the IETF works so effectively at filteri=
ng out Internet trolls because of the rigor and structure required for a pr=
oposal to be submitted.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; <a href=3D"http://www.ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">http://www.ietf.org<=
/a>&quot;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; <a href=3D"http://wh.gov/G29p" target=3D"_blank">http://wh.gov/G29p</a=
><br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; <a href=3D"https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/create-request-co=
mment-rfc-process-similar-ietfs-taking-suggestions-innovation-public/CqHFnj=
Jc" target=3D"_blank">https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/create-requ=
est-comment-rfc-process-similar-ietfs-taking-suggestions-innovation-public/=
CqHFnjJc</a><br>

&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
<br>
</div></div>--<br>
&quot;Working the ICANN process is like being nibbled to death by ducks,<br=
it takes forever, it doesn&#39;t make sense, and in the end we&#39;re still=
 dead in the water.&quot;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 -- Tom Galvin, VeriSign&#39;s vice president for government r=
elations.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
</blockquote></div><br></div>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br></div>

--e89a8f838cff8b048104d76e919a--

---

From: Sam Crooks <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2013 12:34:23 -0800

Ideal would be "SharkTank". But that is bound to be difficult at a
national level.

(SharkTank is something we are doing in my org in my employer.. I make
trouble everywhere, not just in public forums.. Intrapreneur is what
they politely are calling people like me now apparently... Chief
troublemaker is how I refer to it)..

Sam Crooks
[email-masked]

Sent from my Windows Phone From: Joe Abley
Sent: =E2=80=8E3/=E2=80=8E8/=E2=80=8E2013 12:21 PM
To: Richard Barnes
Cc: Sam Crooks; [email-masked]; [email-masked];
[email-masked]; [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [IETF] Petition for "We the People" US Federal Government
petition process: Create a Request for Comment (RFC) process similar to
the IETF's for taking in suggestions for innovation from public.

On 2013-03-08, at 14:09, Richard Barnes <[email-masked]> wrote:

> I think you may be over-estimating the filtering power of the Internet-Dr=
aft system.

Perhaps the implication is that if the Whitehouse were to insist upon a 197=
0s publication format and employed an array of tools to reject submissions =
based on formatting errors, only the most persistent trolls would get throu=
gh?

Joe
(running away now)