Subject: Re: [IPsec] WG Last Call comments on draft-ietf-ipsecme-split-dns

From: Paul Wouters <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2018 11:35:33 -0500 (EST)

On Mon, 22 Jan 2018, Tero Kivinen wrote:

[ added [email-masked] to get a general discussion on this, as it seems
  this is a procedural issue not specific to the WG ]

execsum: I followed RFC 7120 to get an Early Code Point, and there is
confusion about the process between me, the chairs and the epxert.

> I have not seen any request come from IANA to me as an expert. WG
> chairs do not assign code points, IANA does that, and they will only
> start the process when such request is submitted to them. This will
> automatically happen during the RFC publication process. You can also
> submit the request to the IANA at any time, as this is Expert review
> registry...
>
> So make the request through the IANA and then it will come to me (and
> got tickets assigned which will send me reminders if I do not act on
> it quickly enough) and then you can get the number allocated.

I followed https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7120#section-3

    The process for requesting and obtaining early allocation of code
    points is as follows:

    1.  The authors (editors) of the document submit a request for early
        allocation to the Working Group chairs, specifying which code
        points require early allocation and to which document they should
        be assigned.

    2. [wg chairs do stuff]

Nowhere does it link to or mention a page at IANA where to do this.
Nowhere does it state I should not contact the WG chairs.

Now, there is a strangeness in section 2:

The following conditions must hold before a request for early
    allocation of code points will be considered by IANA:

    a.  The code points must be from a space designated as "RFC
        Required", "IETF Review", or "Standards Action".  Additionally,
        requests for early assignment of code points from a
        "Specification Required" registry are allowed if the
        specification will be published as an RFC.

I don't understand why "Expert review" is not listed here. Is it by
design or an error in RFC 7120 ?

Additionally, the document does not point to any other instructions
for the process in the case of Expert Review. Who to contact where?

Paul

> Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2018 10:35:13
> From: Tero Kivinen <[email-masked]>
> Cc: "[email-masked]" <[email-masked]>, Paul Hoffman <[email-masked]>
> To: Paul Wouters <[email-masked]>
> Subject: Re: [IPsec] WG Last Call comments on draft-ietf-ipsecme-split-dns
> 
> Paul Wouters writes:
>> On Mon, 22 Jan 2018, Paul Hoffman wrote:
>>
>>> Greetings. This document is still listed as in WG Last Call, although I haven't seen anything in the archive about that Last Call closing.
>>
>> Yeah, the WGLC ended Nov 9. I have pinged the chairs a few times
>> already, and requested an early code point for INTERNAL_DNSSEC_TA.
>> (we already have one for INTERNAL_DNS_DOMAIN)
>
> I have not seen any request come from IANA to me as an expert. WG
> chairs do not assign code points, IANA does that, and they will only
> start the process when such request is submitted to them. This will
> automatically happen during the RFC publication process. You can also
> submit the request to the IANA at any time, as this is Expert review
> registry...
>
> So make the request through the IANA and then it will come to me (and
> got tickets assigned which will send me reminders if I do not act on
> it quickly enough) and then you can get the number allocated.
>
> I though I had already explained this year ago when we assigned
> INTERNAL_DNS_DOMAIN, i.e., for expert registries, there is no need to
> go through IESG or WG chairs, you can fill in the form in IANA page,
> and then it will come to the expert for review...
> -- 
> [email-masked]
>
> _______________________________________________
> IPsec mailing list
> [email-masked]
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipsec
>

---

From: Michelle Cotton <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2018 16:47:18 +0000

Hi Paul,

Expert review requests don’t generally need early assignment because the expert can review a request immediately and codepoints can be assigned.

The working group chairs normally send the requests to [email-masked] for early allocation.  See point 5 in section 3.1:

   5.  If the Area Directors approve step 4), the WG chairs request IANA
       to make an early allocation.

Looks like some improvements are needed to RFC7120 and as I’m the author, I’ll add that to my list of to-do’s.

Let me know if you have any further questions.

Best regards,

Michelle Cotton
Protocol Parameters Engagement Sr. Manager – IANA Services

-----Original Message-----
From: ietf <[email-masked]> on behalf of Paul Wouters <[email-masked]>
Date: Monday, January 22, 2018 at 8:36 AM
To: Tero Kivinen <[email-masked]>
Cc: "[email-masked]" <[email-masked]>, "[email-masked]" <[email-masked]>
Subject: [Ext] Re: [IPsec] WG Last Call comments on draft-ietf-ipsecme-split-dns

    
    
    > it quickly enough) and then you can get the number allocated.
    
    I followed https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__tools.ietf.org_html_rfc7120-23section-2D3&d=DwIBAg&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=DtXLhb_G8hD85GLUyK8Z_tHchz8XPohfWYCwPbpStcU&m=VPvwZ58pXTamTD0lOqjz84Jkf5QVaIlhL2YiYAKqoVg&s=Lwg0SR9f74E08PQbAyw6awTf6d5NAzlLz4ylvxQXZ10&e=

    
        2. [wg chairs do stuff]

    

    
    
    Paul
    
    > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.ietf.org_mailman_listinfo_ipsec&d=DwIBAg&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=DtXLhb_G8hD85GLUyK8Z_tHchz8XPohfWYCwPbpStcU&m=VPvwZ58pXTamTD0lOqjz84Jkf5QVaIlhL2YiYAKqoVg&s=alAy_YYi5GXoFXZxPAR6fdo_nMCLOH6SBRm7H0U5Odk&e=
    >

---

From: Tero Kivinen <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2018 20:28:52 +0200

>   this is a procedural issue not specific to the WG ]

You are trying to follow wrong procedure. There is NO early
allocations for expert review registries. There are only normal
allocations for expert review registries, and those can be done at any
time. The expert (and registry) might then have other requirements
before doing allocation, but as such all allocations are normal
allocations.

> confusion about the process between me, the chairs and the epxert.

RFC7120 does not apply here. From introduction:

   This memo addresses the early allocation of code points so that
   reservations are made in the IANA registries before the publication
   of an RFC. The early allocation mechanisms are applied only to
   spaces whose allocation policy is "Specification Required" (where
   an RFC is used as the stable reference), "RFC Required", "IETF
   Review", or "Standards Action". For an explanation of these
   allocation policies, see [RFC5226].

> I followed https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7120#section-3
<wrong procedure removed> 
> Nowhere does it state I should not contact the WG chairs.

That would be true for procedure following RFC7120, but as your
request is not for registries specified in RFC7120 you should not even
try to follow those rules.

> design or an error in RFC 7120 ?

By design.

Expert review assignments can be done at any time and expert will
decide whether those are done or not (but might need to follow rules
set when registry was created too).

It would be possible to get expert to assign you number even before
there is internet draft, so there is no need for "Early allocations".
When you are trying to allocate things earlier than you normally
could, i.e., before the RFC is published for "RFC required" etc, then
you need to get approval for that "Early allocation", but not for
registries where you can do allocations at any time.

> for the process in the case of Expert Review. Who to contact where?

Go to the iana.org web page and click "Apply for assignment" in the
protocol assignments part, and then select "all other protocol
registries" from there and fill in the form.

This will mean that there will be IANA ticket created for that, and
they will then contact the expert to check the request and depending
on expert's answer they will do the allocaton or not.
-- 
[email-masked]