Subject: RE: [IMRG] Measurement TCPs

From: "Ayyasamy, Senthilkumar (UMKC-Student)" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 12:02:05 -0500

> In order to have raw material it will
> probably be useful to agree on a common
> format for the material.

  The work by allman et all is the starting point for such an 
effort. 

   >     Mark Allman, Ethan Blanton, Wesley Eddy. A Scalable System for
   >     Sharing Internet Measurements. Proceedings of the Passive and
   >     Active Measurement Workshop, March 2002.
   >     http://roland.grc.nasa.gov/~mallman/papers/simr-pam2002.ps

See figure 3. It gives a example format for an entry into the 
measurement database. One can use a simple XML format to export such
a data. Also, we are here to form consensus on such efforts.

> We will need a lot of funding for this
> kind of effort.  At speeds that some of
> us collect raw data on a 2GB file is a
> matter of a few minutes at best.

Most of the universities participate in many test bed efforts like 
internet2. So, working more on allman's proposal towards scalable 
measurement infrastrcuture will not be difficult. I tend to think
something close to grid based systems for implementing such
an infrastructure. When we are working on testbeds for introducing
disruptive technologies in Internet, why will this be a difficult
task?

> Not providing raw data for paper
> submission does not invalidate the
> research.  
 Sorry but i never meant that way. One MUST accept that all
SIGCOMM papers provide path breaking results and it will be of
interest to the networking community to see relevant data.

>I believe that at the end we
> are interested in results not data and a
> paper accepted to SIGCOMM I hope will
> get scrutinized based on the results not
> the lack of raw data.

IMO, paper review depend to some extent on the *nature* of the trace 
data. I dont think people will accept a paper on self-similarity if
it still quotes the 1980(?) bell core ethernet traces. I think, we 
did not even have browsers at that time. The access traffic has 
metamorphised a lot. 

So, It will be of interest to everyone to see both the results and
the relevant measurement data.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ratul Mahajan [mailto:[email-masked]]
> Sent: Tuesday, September 10, 2002 6:24 PM
> [...]
> a lot of cool stuff (not everything, i agree) can be done from the
> sidelines (as you demonstrated in your sigcomm talk), and 
> that is actually
> part of the fun and challenge in measurement work.

 Take for example research on CDN. Do you expect akamai to give their
data? Never. But, people find it interesting to reverse engineer and
see how they work. So, sometimes, it is challenging to work with zero
input measurement data. Remember, it still remains as conjectures.

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From: Brian Tierney <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2002 09:44:13 -0700

Hi All:

Im am very glad to see the creation of this research group, and think 
this is a very important area. I like a lot of ideas in the paper 
mentioned below.

I want to point out that there is a great deal of related work going on 
in the Global Grid Forum (GGF) (http://www.gridforum.org/). In 
particular, efforts to define standard names and formats for much of 
this data. Also, the DMTF CIM effort relates to some of this.

Here are some pointers:

Network Measurements Working Group
    http://www-didc.lbl.gov/NMWG/
    http://www-didc.lbl.gov/NMWG/ggf5/nmwg-hierarchy-ggf5.pdf

Grid Monitoring Architecture:
    http://www-didc.lbl.gov/GGF-PERF/GMA-WG/
    http://www-didc.lbl.gov/GGF-PERF/GMA-WG/papers/GWD-GP-16-3.pdf

Discovery and Monitoring Event Description (DAMED) Working Group
    http://www-didc.lbl.gov/damed/
    http://www-didc.lbl.gov/damed/documents/TopN_Events_version_3.html

And a recent paper by my group that shows how some of this ties together:
    http://www-didc.lbl.gov/papers/Monitoring-archive-SC02.pdf

Hope you find this useful.

-- 
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   Brian L. Tierney,   Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory (LBNL)
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