Subject: RE: LTANS WG Last Call on draft-ietf-ltans-ers-scvp-03.txt

From: "Tobias Gondrom" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2007 21:42:54 +0200

Hello,

*sigh* my company as many others has the policy to include certain disclaimers in the emails sent out by their employees.

(note: Technically I can in fact remove or modify this disclaimer if necessary. But as I would have to do this for every single email individually, I tend to forget to modify my footer for the IETF. Maybe I could use a private email instead, but this would also not be the most convenient option...)

Although I understand that it might be interesting to make a precedent case of my email, please note that this email DID obviously NOT CONTAIN ANY IP content. So maybe not the best example?

However, as I might make this mistake in the future again - to leave the footer as it is - any ruling from the IPR group of the IETF would be pretty welcome. I would like to understand this as described by Harald, but of course am no lawyer...

If this is not the case and my email is in fact an infringement of the IETF policies, please accept my apologies. (If this would be an infringement of IETF policies, we(IETF) should definitely also very fast implement an automatic scanner for disclaimers and bounce back the other violating emails as well.)

Tobias

Ps.: I would propose to lead this discussion on the ipr-wg list and not on ltans - unless you want to also discuss it on all the other IETF WG lists as well.

-----Original Message-----

From: todd glassey [mailto:[email-masked]]

Sent: Wed 6/20/2007 8:08 PM

To: Harald Alvestrand; Tobias Gondrom; Contreras, Jorge

Cc: [email-masked]; [email-masked]

Subject: Re: LTANS WG Last Call on draft-ietf-ltans-ers-scvp-03.txt

No Harald - ITS YOU WHO ARE WRONG...

If Tobias doesn't own the mail server and/or doesn't have legal power of

attorney for the mail server, then he cannot assign the ownership of

anything to anyone sent through that gateway whether you like it or not...

PERIOD.

But hey Harald - since you cannot provide ANY basis in fact for that

statement you made, and yet you continue to insist I am wrong... I suggest

that you get the IETF's lawyers to publicly say that "NoteWell overrides any

and all printed disclaimers or IP Ownership Statement's in any submissions

to the IETF"... and since we both know that this will open the IETF to

litigation from every SOX impacted company on the face of the planet

for attacking the controls they need on their email GW's, I am betting

that you refuse to do this too...

That said - Harald - either document that there is precedent in US Law to

set aside the disclaimer statement in the Tobias' email or back off the

commentary ...

Todd Glassey

----- Original Message -----

From: "Harald Alvestrand" <[email-masked]>

To: "Tobias Gondrom" <[email-masked]>

Cc: <[email-masked]>; <[email-masked]>

Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2007 10:57 AM

Subject: Re: LTANS WG Last Call on draft-ietf-ltans-ers-scvp-03.txt

todd glassey wrote:

> Tobias I want to point out an inconsistency in how the IETF operates...

>  We are told that any and all submissions belong to the IETF, but

> according to the text disclaimer in your filing, the Open Text Corporation

> claims it holds and retains any and all rights to the text herein. That

> means that the NoteWell processes of the IETF DONT work here, and cannot

> by the very disclaimer you have on the mailings themselves.

>  This is not my doing - I am just noticing this and asking how NoteWell

> can possibly be called into effect when disclaimers like the one you have

> below are included in the mailing since I see no formal way of setting

> those terms and conditions aside. I dont mean this as a slam on the LTANS

> WG - this is the problem of the management of the IPR WG who is

> responsible for this screw-up IMHO.

There is precedent for this; the disclaimers on a message that is

voluntarily and knowingly posted to a forum where the rules are

different cause the disclaimers to be without any legal effect.

In particular, by sending the message to the LTANS list, Tobias Gondrom

is bound by the IETF rules on contributions, no matter what his (IMHO

silly) disclaimers say.

Harald

>  Todd Glassey

>     ----- Original Message -----

>     *From:* Tobias Gondrom <mailto:[email-masked]>

>     *To:* [email-masked] <mailto:[email-masked]>

>     *Sent:* Wednesday, June 20, 2007 9:33 AM

>     *Subject:* LTANS WG Last Call on draft-ietf-ltans-ers-scvp-03.txt

>     Hello dear LTANS WG,

>     to progress with ers-scvp, I would like to announce WG Last Call

>     for this document.

>     Please make a last careful review of the draft and submit

>     comments, questions and discuss items for this draft until

>     July-05, so that we can present a final status on the draft at the

>     Chicago meeting and submit it to the IESG soon.

>     Thank you,

>     Tobias

>     Chair of LTANS

>     ***__________________________________________*

>     *Tobias Gondrom*

>     Head of Open Text Security Team

>     Director, Product Security

>     *Open Text Corporation*

>     Technopark 2

>     Werner-von-Siemens-Ring 20

>     D-85630 Grasbrunn

>     Phone: +49 (0) 89 4629-1816

>     Mobile: +49 (0) 173 5942987

>     Telefax: +49 (0) 89 4629-33-1816

>     eMail: mailto:[email-masked]

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>     Place of Incorporation / Sitz der Gesellschaft: Open Text GmbH, An

>     der Trift 65, 63303 Dreieich, Germany | Phone: +49 (0) 6103 890 40

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