Subject: Re: Is the IETF / Debian discussion resolved?

From: Simon Josefsson <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2012 16:19:34 +0100

mån 2012-02-27 klockan 16:10 +0100 skrev Thomas Koch:
> Hi,
> 
> I've prepared an update to Debian's doc-rfc package and found an 11 years old 
> issue[1] whether RFC's can be included in Debians main repo or not. I just 
> started using the internet around that time...
> 
> [1] http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=92810
> 
> Do you know, how the discussion went and whether the IETF has somehow changed 
> its copyright regulations in a way that would allow Debian to consider it 
> free?

Hi.  The IETF considered the problem but, alas, the decision was to
continue to publish RFCs under a non-free license.

> I've found RFC 5377 which says in 4.4: "There is no consensus at this time to 
> permit the use of text from RFCs in contexts where the right to modify the 
> text is required." - Is my interpretation correct that this means RFCs can not 
> be modified and redistributed and thus are not DFSG-free?

I believe that is the correct interpretation.

/Simon

---

From: Thomas Koch <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2012 16:10:35 +0100

Hi,

(Please CC me in replies.)

Thank you,

Thomas Koch, http://www.koch.ro

---

From: Marshall Eubanks <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2012 11:35:43 -0500

>> be modified and redistributed and thus are not DFSG-free?

The License the IETF Trust provides all users of RFCs (or I-Ds). From
the Trust Legal Provisions (version 4.0, Section 3)
http://trustee.ietf.org/docs/IETF-Trust-License-Policy.pdf

c.	Licenses For Use Outside the IETF Standards Process. In addition to
the rights granted with respect to Code Components described in
Section 4 below, the IETF Trust hereby grants to each person who
wishes to exercise such rights, to the greatest extent that it is
permitted to do so, a non-exclusive, royalty-free, worldwide right and
license under all copyrights and rights of authors:

i.	to copy, publish, display and distribute IETF Contributions and
IETF Documents in full and without modification,
ii.	to translate IETF Contributions and IETF Documents into languages
other than English, and to copy, publish, display and distribute such
translated IETF Contributions and IETF Documents in full and without
modification,
iii.	to copy, publish, display and distribute unmodified portions of
IETF Contributions and IETF Documents and translations thereof,
provided that:
(x)	each such portion is clearly attributed to IETF and identifies the
RFC or other IETF Document or IETF Contribution from which it is
taken,
(y)	all IETF legends, legal notices and indications of authorship
contained in the original IETF RFC must also be included where any
substantial portion of the text of an IETF RFC, and in any event where
more than one-fifth of such text, is reproduced in a single document
or series of related documents.

So, note

- anyone can publish a full RFC, as is.

- anyone can publish a small section of an IETF RFC, as is.

- anyone can publish a big piece of an IETF RFC, with various
requirements about adding boilerplate.

None of this has apparently changed much since the discussion in
http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=92810

Note that the TLP allows for code components, in 4.c

c.	License.	In addition to the licenses granted under Section 3,
unless one of the legends contained in Section 6.c.i or 6.c.ii is
included in an IETF Document containing Code Components, such Code
Components are also licensed to each person who wishes to receive such
a license on the terms of the “Simplified BSD License", as described
below. If a licensee elects to apply the BSD License to a Code
Component, then the additional licenses and restrictions set forth in
Section 3 and elsewhere in these Legal Provisions shall not apply
thereto. Note that this license is specifically offered for IETF
Documents and may not be available for Alternate Stream documents. See
Section 8 for licensing information for the appropriate stream.

The BSD license is specifically allowed for under the DFSG.

Note : These criteria were set out in RFC 5378. For RFCs prior to
5378, you are also going to have to ask the authors for permission.

Regards
Marshall Eubanks

> _______________________________________________
> Ipr-wg mailing list
> [email-masked]
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipr-wg

---

From: Marshall Eubanks <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2012 11:37:20 -0500

> (Please CC me in replies.)

And, also cc the IETF Trust.

Regards
Marshall

---

From: todd glassey <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2012 09:36:21 -0800

On 2/27/2012 8:35 AM, Marshall Eubanks wrote:
> On Mon, Feb 27, 2012 at 10:19 AM, Simon Josefsson<[email-masked]>  wrote:

i.e.

1) 	The IETF is passing the IP through under the constraints it was 
submitted by.

2)	Per Section "C" the Trust is OKing the use of IP outside of the 
controlled mechanisms that the IETF created it (laughingly too) under. 
This is simply not legal.

The IETF cannot set aside the publication of copyrighted documents not 
being used directly in the research it performs. Once performed - the 
research is done meaning that the continuous need to breach those 
previous copyright is also gone.

So the real issue is whether the IETF is willing to defend its ability 
to license others to be able to set (C) and other IP protection 
provisions aside in furtherance of the IETF's goals (which seem to be to 
destroy the World's IP Protection Schemas IMHO).

-- 
Todd S. Glassey
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