Subject: Re: [iucg] I-D Action:draft-ietf-idnabis-mappings-00.txt

From: Marie-France Berny <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 26 May 2009 04:48:06 +0200

Dear @larges,
the text of this Draft can now be found and printed at
http://wikidna.org/index.php?title=IDNA_Mapping.

My _personal_ comment - JFC is probably still unavailabe before one or two
days - is that Pete sticks to his position and places mapping on the user
side. This should be compatible with the much more architectural
france@large proposition.

Guys, we can now help JFC finalize our Draft. Tank you Pete!.
Marie-France Berny.

2009/5/26 <[email-masked]>

> A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts
> directories.
> This draft is a work item of the Internationalized Domain Names in
> Applications (Revised) Working Group of the IETF.
>
>
>        Title           : Mapping Characters in IDNA
>        Author(s)       : P. Resnick
>        Filename        : draft-ietf-idnabis-mappings-00.txt
>        Pages           : 8
>        Date            : 2009-05-25
>
> In the original version of the Internationalized Domain Names in
> Applications (IDNA) protocol, any Unicode code points taken from user
> input were mapped into a set of Unicode code points that "make
> sense", which were then encoded and passed to the domain name system
> (DNS).  The current version of IDNA presumes that the input to the
> protocol comes from a set of "permitted" code points, which it then
> encodes and passes to the DNS, but does not specify what to do with
> the result of user input.  This document specifies the actions taken
> by an implementation between user input and passing permitted code
> points to the new IDNA protocol.
>
> A URL for this Internet-Draft is:
> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-idnabis-mappings-00.txt
>
> Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
> ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/
>
> Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader
> implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the
> Internet-Draft.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Idna-update mailing list
> [email-masked]
> http://www.alvestrand.no/mailman/listinfo/idna-update
>
>

---

From: JFC Morfin <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 27 May 2009 15:33:06 +0200

At 12:20 27/05/2009, Martin J. Dürst wrote:
>Hello Pete,

Dear Martin,
your remarks are pertinent. However, may I suggest that you say the 
same thing as Pete, in as much words as him. Except that you are 
network-up, while he is user-down (and this is what is new in IETF - 
i.e. compliant with the Internet process and matching the IUCG's 
targets). This is why I support what you say because I need the 
Internet to work, the same as I support what Pete writes because I 
need the Intersem (Semiotic Internet, which is my interest) to be 
supported (I welcome Pete's vivid description of the semiotic user inputs).

Now, my Draft addresses exactly what you call for. I did not want to 
publish it before Pete published his, because the Chair had annouced 
it (and because there can be alternative views to what we start 
developping and I wished the debate to be initiate by someone else). 
As I said I am sorry, I am delayed, but I try to make my best as I 
see the analysis is eventually converging (at least the way I see and 
describe it).

jfc

>On 2009/05/27 13:02, Pete Resnick wrote:
> > Well, apparently like Hume's Treatise, it appears that my draft "fell
> > dead-born from the Press; without reaching such distinction as even
> > to excite a Murmur among the Zealots."
> >
> > Anyone else have a comment?
>
>First impression: Long sentences, long paragraphs. I definitely suggest
>going through the document and try to cut all sentences so that they fit
>in two lines or less, as an editorial exercise independent of how the
>content is going to change.
>
>Taking into the account that Section 3 and beyond are not yet worked out
>very much, I won't comment on these. Section 2 is called "Architectural
>Principles", which sounds good. But I have mostly found some general
>explanations of how user input works these days, some explanations about
>the history of IDNA and the differences between IDNA versions, and so
>on, nothing getting close to anything Architecturally.
>
>One reading of the document suggests that the "mapping" happens when
>characters are input, e.g. from the keyboard. I think it would be a
>great contribution to text processing and internationalization on the
>planet if all data input happened to produce data in NFC. However, I
>unfortunately have serious doubts that this will happen, even if IDNA
>suggests it stronly (and even if we require it). For other kinds of
>mappings (e.g. mapping to lower-case), it would be complete havoc if it
>happened at user input. It would be impossible to type UPPER-case
>characters.
>
>That shows that it is impossible to put the mapping at the point of user
>input (e.g. from a keyboard). It may work for the 'location' or
>'address' field in a browser, but not for editing a script or a settings
>file with a plain text editor.
>
>Except for a lot of talk about keybords and the like, there is no
>discussion about where between the keyboard and the punycode conversion
>the mapping might happen. If some thought has been given to this, it
>should be included in the document. If not, somebody better start thinking.
>
>detail:
>"in order to draw a Latin small letter A ("a")": 'draw' should be
>replaced by 'input' or another more generic term.
>
>Regards,   Martin.
>
>--
>#-# Martin J. Dürst, Professor, Aoyama Gakuin University
>#-# http://www.sw.it.aoyama.ac.jp  mailto:[email-masked]