Subject: [iucg] please don't

From: jefsey <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 11 Jul 2009 00:34:18 +0200

Dear IUCG participants,
I strongly advise you not to keep involving yourselves into the 
current WG-IDNABIS debate, moreover using material we work on for a 
different purpose. This debate is now very well documented by IETF 
leaders explaining the point at hand in ways that other long time 
IETF participants can understand. This may certainly seem boring, or 
even deeply hurting, or childish to you when all the participants are 
English mother tongue engineers, give you the feeling they decide for 
the other 29.999 natural languages, or pretend to speak your own 
language better than you, specially when you are an high level 
academic, are from other communities, etc.. However ....

You have to accept that this is a long standing IETF debate, not a 
young IUCG debate. IETF is part of the Internet architecture. Its 
English is part of the IETF. In addition some participants who are 
involved today are actually new to the debate. We must not confuse 
them with points they never considered yet. Let give them time to 
bring themselves up to speed. If they join the debate it is because 
they feel it has reached an important point. Please also remember two 
basic rules: "don't feed the troll" - "don't feed competition either".

We have made our point for the records (IAB, IESG, IETF/LC). As being 
lead users with a proposition:

- we 100% agree with the Charter,
- we respect every contributor's experience in the current 
engineering debate (linguistic, orthotypographic issue are now over, 
as long as their support is not blocked/disregarded)
- we support the forming rough consensus,
- we certainly welcome the UI layer concept as an open field to 
application developpers (including open source)
- we contributed in explaining how and what we will build on top of 
the current experience in 100%, respecting and protecting the 
currents DNS and Internet
- how we plan two real life, full size, test projects in order to get 
experience about some of the questions being raised and to validate 
our proposition
- we intend to carry these projects along rules we will submit to the 
community.

As Vint advised, discussions on Interplus, Internet Plus, and 
Intersem should be on a separate list. Now there is no more 
opposition with the WG, such a list will not appear as competition to 
IDNA. The document framework I introduced the idea yesterday will 
also serve as a charter for such a list. Once this document is 
drafted, I will start such a list and invite everyone who could be 
interested on a personnal basis.

I am on vacations tonight and I plan to develop a wiki-to-draft 
formater, have a look to Haraway and Wittegeinstein, refresh wome of 
my maths, review the Interplus pages, relax and think over 
fundamentals of semiotics/semantics. Let wish the IETF to get a good 
IDNA2008 document set, with a coherent and structured vision of 
mapping strategy - from user, application, IDNA, etc. down to the DNS.

Best
jfc

---

From: Peter Dambier <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 11 Jul 2009 10:56:05 +0200

Have a nice holiday, Jefsey.

And yes, I agree with charter and rough consensus.

Don't touch the waste pipe (tuyau de chute) as long as the water is running. :)

Cheers
Peter and Karin

jefsey wrote:
> Dear IUCG participants,
> I strongly advise you not to keep involving yourselves into the current
> WG-IDNABIS debate, moreover using material we work on for a different
> purpose. This debate is now very well documented by IETF leaders
> explaining the point at hand in ways that other long time IETF
> participants can understand. This may certainly seem boring, or even
> deeply hurting, or childish to you when all the participants are English
> mother tongue engineers, give you the feeling they decide for the other
> 29.999 natural languages, or pretend to speak your own language better
> than you, specially when you are an high level academic, are from other
> communities, etc.. However ....
> 
> You have to accept that this is a long standing IETF debate, not a young
> IUCG debate. IETF is part of the Internet architecture. Its English is
> part of the IETF. In addition some participants who are involved today
> are actually new to the debate. We must not confuse them with points
> they never considered yet. Let give them time to bring themselves up to
> speed. If they join the debate it is because they feel it has reached an
> important point. Please also remember two basic rules: "don't feed the
> troll" - "don't feed competition either".
> 
> - we respect every contributor's experience in the current engineering
> debate (linguistic, orthotypographic issue are now over, as long as
> their support is not blocked/disregarded)
> - we contributed in explaining how and what we will build on top of the
> current experience in 100%, respecting and protecting the currents DNS
> and Internet
> experience about some of the questions being raised and to validate our
> proposition
> As Vint advised, discussions on Interplus, Internet Plus, and Intersem
> should be on a separate list. Now there is no more opposition with the
> WG, such a list will not appear as competition to IDNA. The document
> framework I introduced the idea yesterday will also serve as a charter
> for such a list. Once this document is drafted, I will start such a list
> and invite everyone who could be interested on a personnal basis.
> 
> formater, have a look to Haraway and Wittegeinstein, refresh wome of my
> maths, review the Interplus pages, relax and think over fundamentals of
> semiotics/semantics. Let wish the IETF to get a good IDNA2008 document
> set, with a coherent and structured vision of mapping strategy - from
> user, application, IDNA, etc. down to the DNS.
> 
> Best
> jfc
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> iucg mailing list
> [email-masked]
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/iucg

-- 
Peter and Karin Dambier
Cesidian Root - Radice Cesidiana
Rimbacher Strasse 16
D-69509 Moerlenbach-Bonsweiher
+49(6209)795-816 (Telekom)
+49(6252)750-308 (VoIP: sipgate.de)
mail: [email-masked]
http://www.peter-dambier.de/
http://iason.site.voila.fr/
https://sourceforge.net/projects/iason/
ULA= fd80:4ce1:c66a::/48