Subject: [iucg] How would we consider an IP root for the GRS [global routing system]?

From: jefsey <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 20:38:53 +0100

Dear colleagues,

Olaf Kolkman, IAB Chair, has published an IAB position regarding the 
authentication of IP address.
http://iucg.org/wiki/Olaf_Kolkman:_an_IP_root_for_the_GRS
Somme comments have been added, we will add ours.

1. this should probably be considered in the perspective of IPv4 
address shortage? In your opinion, is there a real IPv4 shortage or a 
(mis)organised one? What about a LISP solution?
2. this is a consequence for IPv6 of the way RIRs have started 
managing IPv6 "à la" IPv4. Is there another IPv6 solution to protect 
users from an IProot.
3. How does affect the "IDv6" (the IPv6 intervace IDs) usage related issues?
4. Would an alternative to the IPv6 addressing plan be a more secure 
and less processing demanding solution (geography, topology,..?)
5. how could such an alternative implemented?

I recall that the pre-discussions we had on the matter shown that:
- user want the full availablility/control of their IDv6 addresses.
- immediately (which means that they have to be supported through 
numeric names of the form "6--idv6")
- IPv4 LISP seems favored in order to permit a flexible topology 
related reliable numbering and "pre-routing" to be immediately 
implemented between authenticated gateways
- IPv6 seems favored as a "second" layer under LISP IPv4 in order to 
insure IDv6 support.
- a universal intersystem protocol to be developped to interconnect 
ISP as well as users interboxes (in the interplus framework).

Comments welcome
jfc

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From: Xavier Legoff <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 00:02:45 +0100

Jefsey,
what a user needs is to extend his localization system beyond his cybship.
Let say he uses a map or his eye/radar. The map can be wrong, the eye/radar
is not documented, but one can check one with the other. If you consider it,
the internet is a new concept here if you compare it to the internat: there
is no natural routing mechanism based upon HLA? Addressing seems to be
spiritual? Actually naming came first in Bible (Adam), not coordinates. Look
at Japanese addresses. It seems that addresses like we conceive them call
upon societal functions? Why do we feel they are more infrastructural? what
about dogs traveling back and orientation sense. Could there be an intuitive
meta-addressing rule (sharks feel the electromagnetic fields and know where
the north is), could there be a magnetic north on a network? The need would
for an address IFF.
Let sleep on it.
Xavier

2010/2/17 jefsey <[email-masked]>

> 1. this should probably be considered in the perspective of IPv4 address
> shortage? In your opinion, is there a real IPv4 shortage or a (mis)organised
> one? What about a LISP solution?
> 2. this is a consequence for IPv6 of the way RIRs have started managing
> IPv6 "à la" IPv4. Is there another IPv6 solution to protect users from an
> IProot.
> 4. Would an alternative to the IPv6 addressing plan be a more secure and
> less processing demanding solution (geography, topology,..?)
> - immediately (which means that they have to be supported through numeric
> names of the form "6--idv6")
> - IPv4 LISP seems favored in order to permit a flexible topology related
> reliable numbering and "pre-routing" to be immediately implemented between
> authenticated gateways
> - IPv6 seems favored as a "second" layer under LISP IPv4 in order to insure
> IDv6 support.
> - a universal intersystem protocol to be developped to interconnect ISP as
> well as users interboxes (in the interplus framework).
>
> Comments welcome
> jfc
>
> _______________________________________________
> iucg mailing list
> [email-masked]
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/iucg
>

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From: Marie-France Berny <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 00:39:37 +0100

Xavier,
I got also a look to the IETF thread.

I disagree about your assumption of the Internat. The Internat includes a
much complex network system which has a very powerful addressing system: the
brain. Is there something more precise than memory. One blurs memories due
to the way we use and rebuild them, but if you remember something the chain
of souvenirs is very precise. And souvenirs chains are multidimentional and
multiformat, obviously smart, etc. so smart that this is intelligence.

Let say that addressing here becomes cerebral, may be semantics. Time has an
impact. But is quite precise. Look at DNA. So there must be a verification
algorithm. By rumor is uncertain, but by preservation sense is quite
powerful. May be a place to dig into. What I mean is if this becomes
semantics, the key has to be in coherence. Some kind of addressing
consistency should be part of the solution. But I doubt that random
allocation and tables and verification and address portability etc... Has to
be simpler (RFC 3439) and faster.

Marie-France Berny

2010/2/18 Xavier Legoff <[email-masked]>

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From: Marie-France Berny <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 00:48:46 +0100

Just something I thought. Look at words. The words morphology tells us if
they belong to a language or not. There are self verification rules. This is
why IDNA is about orthotypography. Names and addresses must make sense.
Actually what is an address, but a name with some built-in organization that
permits to check or more easily use it. RIR use addresses like names, this
is absurd: instead of simplifying routing and security they make them more
complicate.

A name is much more mobile that an address. Or better, an address has to be
much more rooted in many things than a name. You can change the name of a
building, not its address?
Cheers.

Marie-France Berny

2010/2/18 Marie-France Berny <[email-masked]>

> Let say that addressing here becomes cerebral, may be semantics. Time has
> an impact. But is quite precise. Look at DNA. So there must be a
> verification algorithm. By rumor is uncertain, but by preservation sense is
> quite powerful. May be a place to dig into. What I mean is if this becomes
>>> - a universal intersystem protocol to be developped to interconnect ISP
>>> as well as users interboxes (in the interplus framework).
>>>
>>> Comments welcome
>>> jfc
>>>