From shawn.emery@oracle.com Wed May 5 14:39:46 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: kitten@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: kitten@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1DAFC3A6D1A; Wed, 5 May 2010 14:39:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.002 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.002 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.001, BAYES_50=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id D7bPyBHsbv7z; Wed, 5 May 2010 14:39:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rcsinet10.oracle.com (rcsinet10.oracle.com [148.87.113.121]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF70D3A6B0F; Wed, 5 May 2010 14:39:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from acsinet15.oracle.com (acsinet15.oracle.com [141.146.126.227]) by rcsinet10.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.2/Switch-3.4.1) with ESMTP id o45LdSrh025802 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 5 May 2010 21:39:30 GMT Received: from acsmt353.oracle.com (acsmt353.oracle.com [141.146.40.153]) by acsinet15.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.2/Switch-3.4.1) with ESMTP id o45LdRLb012904; Wed, 5 May 2010 21:39:27 GMT Received: from abhmt017.oracle.com by acsmt354.oracle.com with ESMTP id 240481351273095497; Wed, 05 May 2010 14:38:17 -0700 Received: from [129.150.48.45] (/129.150.48.45) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Wed, 05 May 2010 14:38:17 -0700 Message-ID: <4BE1E547.5030103@oracle.com> Date: Wed, 05 May 2010 15:38:15 -0600 From: Shawn Emery User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS i86pc; en-US; rv:1.9.1.7) Gecko/20100214 Lightning/1.0b1 Thunderbird/3.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: kitten@ietf.org, sasl@ietf.org Subject: SASL and KITTEN-WG Merger Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------020108090802020903040506" X-Auth-Type: Internal IP X-Source-IP: acsinet15.oracle.com [141.146.126.227] X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A090207.4BE1E592.009F:SCFMA922111,ss=1,fgs=0 X-BeenThere: kitten@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Common Authentication Technologies - Next Generation List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 05 May 2010 21:39:46 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------020108090802020903040506 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sorry for any cross-posting, but this is unavoidable given the subject line. During IETF 77, the security ADs suggested that we merge the KITTEN and SASL WGs. This has some potential benefits: 1. ensure efforts of any new work items/extensions 2. both WGs have expertise in security interface design 3. analyze proposed security mechanisms for both set of interfaces Please respond to both lists if you have any objections to such a merger. The time-out for objections is two weeks from this posting. Thank you, Shawn KITTEN co-chair -- --------------020108090802020903040506 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sorry for any cross-posting, but this is unavoidable given the subject line. During IETF 77, the security ADs suggested that we merge the KITTEN and SASL WGs. This has some potential benefits: 1. ensure efforts of any new work items/extensions 2. both WGs have expertise in security interface design 3. analyze proposed security mechanisms for both set of interfaces Please respond to both lists if you have any objections to such a merger. The time-out for objections is two weeks from this posting. Thank you, Shawn KITTEN co-chair --
--------------020108090802020903040506-- From alexey.melnikov@isode.com Wed May 5 14:43:20 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: kitten@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: kitten@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 388423A6B92; Wed, 5 May 2010 14:43:20 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.74 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.74 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.741, BAYES_50=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id KW+1fLV9Y1C2; Wed, 5 May 2010 14:43:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rufus.isode.com (rufus.isode.com [62.3.217.251]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F8813A6AD0; Wed, 5 May 2010 14:43:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [92.40.16.136] (92.40.16.136.sub.mbb.three.co.uk [92.40.16.136]) by rufus.isode.com (submission channel) via TCP with ESMTPA id ; Wed, 5 May 2010 22:43:05 +0100 Message-ID: <4BE1E64F.8090101@isode.com> Date: Wed, 05 May 2010 22:42:39 +0100 From: Alexey Melnikov User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.12) Gecko/20050915 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en To: Shawn Emery Subject: Re: SASL and KITTEN-WG Merger References: <4BE1E547.5030103@oracle.com> In-Reply-To: <4BE1E547.5030103@oracle.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: kitten@ietf.org, sasl@ietf.org X-BeenThere: kitten@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Common Authentication Technologies - Next Generation List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 05 May 2010 21:43:21 -0000 Shawn Emery wrote: > Sorry for any cross-posting, but this is unavoidable given the subject > line. > > During IETF 77, the security ADs suggested that we merge the KITTEN > and SASL WGs. This has some potential benefits: > > 1. ensure efforts of any new work items/extensions > 2. both WGs have expertise in security interface design > 3. analyze proposed security mechanisms for both set of interfaces > > Please respond to both lists if you have any objections to such a > merger. The time-out for objections is two weeks from this posting. (Speaking as an individual): I have No Objections. I suggest the SASL WG should be closed and Kitten should rechater. The SASL WG mailing list should stay open though. > Thank you, > > Shawn KITTEN co-chair From Nicolas.Williams@oracle.com Thu May 6 09:48:05 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: kitten@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: kitten@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 93B3E3A6917; Thu, 6 May 2010 09:48:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.601 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.601 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.862, BAYES_20=-0.74, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id G1qhuRxosFUl; Thu, 6 May 2010 09:48:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rcsinet10.oracle.com (rcsinet10.oracle.com [148.87.113.121]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF6223A6921; Thu, 6 May 2010 09:48:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from acsinet15.oracle.com (acsinet15.oracle.com [141.146.126.227]) by rcsinet10.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.2/Switch-3.4.1) with ESMTP id o46GlnrI010610 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 6 May 2010 16:47:51 GMT Received: from acsmt354.oracle.com (acsmt354.oracle.com [141.146.40.154]) by acsinet15.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.2/Switch-3.4.1) with ESMTP id o465rq7P013811; Thu, 6 May 2010 16:47:47 GMT Received: from abhmt013.oracle.com by acsmt355.oracle.com with ESMTP id 220127231273164393; Thu, 06 May 2010 09:46:33 -0700 Received: from oracle.com (/129.153.128.104) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Thu, 06 May 2010 09:46:33 -0700 Date: Thu, 6 May 2010 11:46:31 -0500 From: Nicolas Williams To: Shawn Emery Subject: Re: SASL and KITTEN-WG Merger Message-ID: <20100506164630.GU9429@oracle.com> References: <4BE1E547.5030103@oracle.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <4BE1E547.5030103@oracle.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.20 (2010-03-02) X-Auth-Type: Internal IP X-Source-IP: acsinet15.oracle.com [141.146.126.227] X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A090204.4BE2F2B7.0172:SCFMA922111,ss=1,fgs=0 Cc: kitten@ietf.org, sasl@ietf.org X-BeenThere: kitten@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Common Authentication Technologies - Next Generation List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 06 May 2010 16:48:05 -0000 On Wed, May 05, 2010 at 03:38:15PM -0600, Shawn Emery wrote: > Sorry for any cross-posting, but this is unavoidable given the subject line. :) > During IETF 77, the security ADs suggested that we merge the KITTEN > and SASL WGs. This has some potential benefits: > > 1. ensure efforts of any new work items/extensions > 2. both WGs have expertise in security interface design > 3. analyze proposed security mechanisms for both set of interfaces Note that KITTEN never had mechanism standardization as a responsibility. Now its successor will? This means that the new WG's charter can't just be a union of the KITTEN and SASL charters. > Please respond to both lists if you have any objections to such a > merger. The time-out for objections is two weeks from this posting. No objections here. I would like to see the proposed charter, of course. I'm also curious as to the name of the new WG. I'd be fine with keeping either of KITTEN or SASL as the name for the new WG. I'd also be happy with a new name. Nico -- From lear@cisco.com Sat May 8 04:57:40 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: kitten@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: kitten@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D97513A6A41; Sat, 8 May 2010 04:57:40 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.07 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.07 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-2.331, BAYES_20=-0.74, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dnQyVGG7WhP1; Sat, 8 May 2010 04:57:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ams-iport-2.cisco.com (ams-iport-2.cisco.com [144.254.224.141]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5E0093A6A10; Sat, 8 May 2010 04:57:39 -0700 (PDT) Authentication-Results: ams-iport-2.cisco.com; dkim=neutral (message not signed) header.i=none X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AvwBALvt5EuQ/uCWiWdsb2JhbACDGJsBFQEBAQoLEREGHKRDiHSQGoQnbgQ X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.52,352,1270425600"; d="scan'208,217";a="6981206" Received: from ams-core-1.cisco.com ([144.254.224.150]) by ams-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 08 May 2010 11:19:46 +0000 Received: from dhcp-10-61-96-68.cisco.com (dhcp-10-61-96-68.cisco.com [10.61.96.68]) by ams-core-1.cisco.com (8.13.8/8.14.3) with ESMTP id o48BvPXA021492; Sat, 8 May 2010 11:57:25 GMT Message-ID: <4BE5518B.7060101@cisco.com> Date: Sat, 08 May 2010 13:56:59 +0200 From: Eliot Lear User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X 10.6; en-US; rv:1.9.2.5pre) Gecko/20100507 Lanikai/3.1pre MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Shawn Emery Subject: Re: [sasl] SASL and KITTEN-WG Merger References: <4BE1E547.5030103@oracle.com> In-Reply-To: <4BE1E547.5030103@oracle.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------070805090405080602040306" X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sat, 08 May 2010 09:00:25 -0700 Cc: kitten@ietf.org, sasl@ietf.org X-BeenThere: kitten@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Common Authentication Technologies - Next Generation List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 08 May 2010 11:57:40 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------070805090405080602040306 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear everyone, I find it hard to have this discussion without understanding what the new charter would be. Is there a pointer somewhere? We had discussions relating to our SAML/OpenID SASL drafts being handled by the new group, but I don't know what would be in scope. Thanks, Eliot On 5/5/10 11:38 PM, Shawn Emery wrote: > > > Sorry for any cross-posting, but this is unavoidable given the subject > line. > > During IETF 77, the security ADs suggested that we merge the KITTEN > and SASL WGs. This has some potential benefits: > > 1. ensure efforts of any new work items/extensions > 2. both WGs have expertise in security interface design > 3. analyze proposed security mechanisms for both set of interfaces > > Please respond to both lists if you have any objections to such a > merger. The time-out for objections is two weeks from this posting. > > Thank you, > > Shawn KITTEN co-chair > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > sasl mailing list > sasl@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sasl --------------070805090405080602040306 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Dear everyone,

I find it hard to have this discussion without understanding what the new charter would be. Is there a pointer somewhere? We had discussions relating to our SAML/OpenID SASL drafts being handled by the new group, but I don't know what would be in scope.

Thanks,

Eliot

On 5/5/10 11:38 PM, Shawn Emery wrote:

Sorry for any cross-posting, but this is unavoidable given the subject line. During IETF 77, the security ADs suggested that we merge the KITTEN and SASL WGs. This has some potential benefits: 1. ensure efforts of any new work items/extensions 2. both WGs have expertise in security interface design 3. analyze proposed security mechanisms for both set of interfaces Please respond to both lists if you have any objections to such a merger. The time-out for objections is two weeks from this posting. Thank you, Shawn KITTEN co-chair --
_______________________________________________
sasl mailing list
sasl@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sasl

--------------070805090405080602040306-- From alexey.melnikov@isode.com Sat May 8 15:36:43 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: kitten@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: kitten@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 073B23A685E; Sat, 8 May 2010 15:36:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.02 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.02 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.579, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id For+hG2cSYzE; Sat, 8 May 2010 15:36:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rufus.isode.com (rufus.isode.com [62.3.217.251]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 217EC3A6812; Sat, 8 May 2010 15:36:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [92.40.175.111] (92.40.175.111.sub.mbb.three.co.uk [92.40.175.111]) by rufus.isode.com (submission channel) via TCP with ESMTPA id ; Sat, 8 May 2010 23:36:29 +0100 Message-ID: <4BE5E729.50107@isode.com> Date: Sat, 08 May 2010 23:35:21 +0100 From: Alexey Melnikov User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.12) Gecko/20050915 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en To: Eliot Lear Subject: Re: [sasl] SASL and KITTEN-WG Merger References: <4BE1E547.5030103@oracle.com> <4BE5518B.7060101@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <4BE5518B.7060101@cisco.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: kitten@ietf.org, sasl@ietf.org X-BeenThere: kitten@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Common Authentication Technologies - Next Generation List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 08 May 2010 22:36:43 -0000 Eliot Lear wrote: > Dear everyone, > > I find it hard to have this discussion without understanding what the > new charter would be. Is there a pointer somewhere? We had > discussions relating to our SAML/OpenID SASL drafts being handled by > the new group, but I don't know what would be in scope. Hi Eliot, There is no charter proposal for the merged WG, so at this point we are discussing things "in general". From simon@josefsson.org Sun May 9 08:15:14 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: kitten@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: kitten@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 68DCC3A6A26; Sun, 9 May 2010 08:15:14 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.716 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.716 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.606, BAYES_05=-1.11] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id KphPdJEdmRfn; Sun, 9 May 2010 08:15:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from yxa-v.extundo.com (yxa-v.extundo.com [83.241.177.39]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF7023A6A31; Sun, 9 May 2010 08:13:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mocca (c80-216-25-148.bredband.comhem.se [80.216.25.148]) (authenticated bits=0) by yxa-v.extundo.com (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-5+lenny1) with ESMTP id o49FDYYs004102 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT); Sun, 9 May 2010 17:13:35 +0200 From: Simon Josefsson To: Eliot Lear Subject: Re: SASL and KITTEN-WG Merger References: <4BE1E547.5030103@oracle.com> <4BE5518B.7060101@cisco.com> OpenPGP: id=B565716F; url=http://josefsson.org/key.txt X-Hashcash: 1:22:100509:lear@cisco.com::BX5Sa9l0d39R6f10:3T72 X-Hashcash: 1:22:100509:sasl@ietf.org::2GFSd8DBOyP0rhQV:BCWW X-Hashcash: 1:22:100509:kitten@ietf.org::0myMqDPyZmQYyltl:KsR8 X-Hashcash: 1:22:100509:shawn.emery@oracle.com::PxftXpwjZLlWtNZm:PHCI Date: Sun, 09 May 2010 17:13:33 +0200 In-Reply-To: <4BE5518B.7060101@cisco.com> (Eliot Lear's message of "Sat, 08 May 2010 13:56:59 +0200") Message-ID: <87ljbtumzm.fsf@mocca.josefsson.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.110011 (No Gnus v0.11) Emacs/23.1 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.96 at yxa-v X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: kitten@ietf.org, sasl@ietf.org X-BeenThere: kitten@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Common Authentication Technologies - Next Generation List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 09 May 2010 15:15:14 -0000 Eliot Lear writes: > Dear everyone, > > I find it hard to have this discussion without understanding what the > new charter would be. Is there a pointer somewhere? We had > discussions relating to our SAML/OpenID SASL drafts being handled by > the new group, but I don't know what would be in scope. To me, the SAML/OpenID mechanisms are perhaps the most important work item for a new working group, so I would be disappointed if it is not mentioned in the charter. /Simon From Nicolas.Williams@oracle.com Mon May 10 07:57:22 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: kitten@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: kitten@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 27B783A6995; Mon, 10 May 2010 07:57:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.245 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.245 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.939, BAYES_40=-0.185, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id vpzvmNEeVCtU; Mon, 10 May 2010 07:57:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rcsinet10.oracle.com (rcsinet10.oracle.com [148.87.113.121]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 253863A6951; Mon, 10 May 2010 07:57:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rcsinet13.oracle.com (rcsinet13.oracle.com [148.87.113.125]) by rcsinet10.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.2/Switch-3.4.1) with ESMTP id o4AEv4mS012486 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 10 May 2010 14:57:05 GMT Received: from acsmt353.oracle.com (acsmt353.oracle.com [141.146.40.153]) by rcsinet13.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.2/Switch-3.4.1) with ESMTP id o4AEuxAC028383; Mon, 10 May 2010 14:57:02 GMT Received: from abhmt015.oracle.com by acsmt355.oracle.com with ESMTP id 227879541273503417; Mon, 10 May 2010 07:56:57 -0700 Received: from oracle.com (/129.153.128.104) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Mon, 10 May 2010 07:56:56 -0700 Date: Mon, 10 May 2010 09:56:49 -0500 From: Nicolas Williams To: Simon Josefsson Subject: Re: [sasl] SASL and KITTEN-WG Merger Message-ID: <20100510145648.GO9429@oracle.com> References: <4BE1E547.5030103@oracle.com> <4BE5518B.7060101@cisco.com> <87ljbtumzm.fsf@mocca.josefsson.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <87ljbtumzm.fsf@mocca.josefsson.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.20 (2010-03-02) X-Auth-Type: Internal IP X-Source-IP: rcsinet13.oracle.com [148.87.113.125] X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A090208.4BE81EC2.0165:SCFMA4539811,ss=1,fgs=0 Cc: kitten@ietf.org, sasl@ietf.org, Eliot Lear X-BeenThere: kitten@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Common Authentication Technologies - Next Generation List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 10 May 2010 14:57:22 -0000 On Sun, May 09, 2010 at 05:13:33PM +0200, Simon Josefsson wrote: > Eliot Lear writes: > > I find it hard to have this discussion without understanding what the > > new charter would be. Is there a pointer somewhere? We had > > discussions relating to our SAML/OpenID SASL drafts being handled by > > the new group, but I don't know what would be in scope. > > To me, the SAML/OpenID mechanisms are perhaps the most important work > item for a new working group, so I would be disappointed if it is not > mentioned in the charter. I don't care if the work Eliot mentions goes in this WG or a separate WG as long as the work gets done :) To start, the proposal to merge these two WGs is fairly straightforward since merging the two charters presents only one minor conflict and since both the GSS-API and SASL have been converging to a large degree. The one minor conflict is that KITTEN was not chartered to work on mechanisms, but SASL did do work on mechanisms (SCRAM, MD5-DIGEST, ...). I think that is easy to resolve: let the new WG work on mechanisms in general, or else list the kinds of mechanisms that the new WG may work on, or, if we think we don't need any new mechanisms, then don't allow the new WG to work on any. Nico -- From Nicolas.Williams@oracle.com Mon May 10 08:11:06 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: kitten@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: kitten@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6690D3A69FE; Mon, 10 May 2010 08:11:06 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.535 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.535 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=2.063, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id M6YDM78M1kiA; Mon, 10 May 2010 08:11:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rcsinet10.oracle.com (rcsinet10.oracle.com [148.87.113.121]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 846243A6403; Mon, 10 May 2010 08:11:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rcsinet15.oracle.com (rcsinet15.oracle.com [148.87.113.117]) by rcsinet10.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.2/Switch-3.4.1) with ESMTP id o4AFAlaA013021 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 10 May 2010 15:10:48 GMT Received: from acsmt354.oracle.com (acsmt354.oracle.com [141.146.40.154]) by rcsinet15.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.2/Switch-3.4.1) with ESMTP id o4AFAgP4032665; Mon, 10 May 2010 15:10:42 GMT Received: from abhmt018.oracle.com by acsmt355.oracle.com with ESMTP id 251611521273504157; Mon, 10 May 2010 08:09:17 -0700 Received: from oracle.com (/129.153.128.104) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Mon, 10 May 2010 08:09:11 -0700 Date: Mon, 10 May 2010 10:09:07 -0500 From: Nicolas Williams To: Eliot Lear Subject: Re: [sasl] SASL and KITTEN-WG Merger Message-ID: <20100510150905.GQ9429@oracle.com> References: <4BE1E547.5030103@oracle.com> <4BE5518B.7060101@cisco.com> <87ljbtumzm.fsf@mocca.josefsson.org> <20100510145648.GO9429@oracle.com> <4BE82041.9070507@cisco.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <4BE82041.9070507@cisco.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.20 (2010-03-02) X-Auth-Type: Internal IP X-Source-IP: rcsinet15.oracle.com [148.87.113.117] X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A090205.4BE821F9.0015:SCFMA4539811,ss=1,fgs=0 Cc: kitten@ietf.org, Simon Josefsson , sasl@ietf.org X-BeenThere: kitten@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Common Authentication Technologies - Next Generation List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 10 May 2010 15:11:06 -0000 On Mon, May 10, 2010 at 05:03:29PM +0200, Eliot Lear wrote: > Thanks for your notes. I have no problem in principle with the > merger, and in fact think it makes a whole lot of sense. But I > always like to look at the detail. No problem. In fact, I asked to see the proposed charter before you did :) > Also, I'll just point out that > this is our opportunity for a new SASSY WG name (KITTEN-KABOODLE?) > ;-) Heh. It's been done too much now :) but I'm OK with that. Nico -- From lear@cisco.com Mon May 10 08:04:13 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: kitten@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: kitten@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5A94628C19E; Mon, 10 May 2010 08:04:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -7.917 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-7.917 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=2.682, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id klFI8mqmuc3Q; Mon, 10 May 2010 08:04:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ams-iport-1.cisco.com (ams-iport-1.cisco.com [144.254.224.140]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CE30C28C166; Mon, 10 May 2010 08:04:11 -0700 (PDT) Authentication-Results: ams-iport-1.cisco.com; dkim=neutral (message not signed) header.i=none X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AtkBAD+950uQ/uCWiWdsb2JhbACDF5sIFQEBAQoLEREGHKNZiHSQNIElgwFuBA X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.52,362,1270425600"; d="scan'208";a="60996382" Received: from ams-core-1.cisco.com ([144.254.224.150]) by ams-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 10 May 2010 15:03:59 +0000 Received: from dhcp-10-55-86-118.cisco.com (dhcp-10-55-86-118.cisco.com [10.55.86.118]) by ams-core-1.cisco.com (8.13.8/8.14.3) with ESMTP id o4AF3xPc011457; Mon, 10 May 2010 15:03:59 GMT Message-ID: <4BE82041.9070507@cisco.com> Date: Mon, 10 May 2010 17:03:29 +0200 From: Eliot Lear User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X 10.6; en-US; rv:1.9.2.5pre) Gecko/20100509 Lanikai/3.1pre MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Nicolas Williams Subject: Re: [sasl] SASL and KITTEN-WG Merger References: <4BE1E547.5030103@oracle.com> <4BE5518B.7060101@cisco.com> <87ljbtumzm.fsf@mocca.josefsson.org> <20100510145648.GO9429@oracle.com> In-Reply-To: <20100510145648.GO9429@oracle.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 10 May 2010 09:25:12 -0700 Cc: kitten@ietf.org, Simon Josefsson , sasl@ietf.org X-BeenThere: kitten@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Common Authentication Technologies - Next Generation List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 10 May 2010 15:04:13 -0000 Nico, all, Thanks for your notes. I have no problem in principle with the merger, and in fact think it makes a whole lot of sense. But I always like to look at the detail. Also, I'll just point out that this is our opportunity for a new SASSY WG name (KITTEN-KABOODLE?) ;-) Eliot From jhutz@cmu.edu Tue May 11 11:13:48 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: kitten@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: kitten@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B703628C200; Tue, 11 May 2010 11:13:47 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.019 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.019 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.279, BAYES_20=-0.74, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id RUu+530zL3xs; Tue, 11 May 2010 11:13:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp01.srv.cs.cmu.edu (SMTP01.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.217.196]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8036A3A6C0C; Tue, 11 May 2010 11:12:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from MINBAR.FAC.CS.CMU.EDU (MINBAR.FAC.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.216.42]) (authenticated bits=0) by smtp01.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id o4BICVQ3024023 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 11 May 2010 14:12:31 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 11 May 2010 14:12:31 -0400 From: Jeffrey Hutzelman To: Eliot Lear , Nicolas Williams Subject: Re: [sasl] SASL and KITTEN-WG Merger Message-ID: <176E8F86825AF9BE457A43D2@minbar.fac.cs.cmu.edu> In-Reply-To: <11586_1273508712_o4AGPBeI021842_4BE82041.9070507@cisco.com> References: <4BE1E547.5030103@oracle.com> <4BE5518B.7060101@cisco.com> <87ljbtumzm.fsf@mocca.josefsson.org> <20100510145648.GO9429@oracle.com> <11586_1273508712_o4AGPBeI021842_4BE82041.9070507@cisco.com> X-Mailer: Mulberry/4.0.8 (Linux/x86) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Scanned-By: mimedefang-cmuscs on 128.2.217.196 Cc: kitten@ietf.org, Simon Josefsson , sasl@ietf.org, jhutz@cmu.edu X-BeenThere: kitten@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Common Authentication Technologies - Next Generation List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 11 May 2010 18:13:48 -0000 --On Monday, May 10, 2010 05:03:29 PM +0200 Eliot Lear wrote: Also, I'll just point out that this is our > opportunity for a new SASSY WG name (KITTEN-KABOODLE?) ;-) Absolutely not. Working group acronyms containing dashes are a major pain. :-) From tony@att.com Tue May 11 13:29:58 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: kitten@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: kitten@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E821D3A67B5; Tue, 11 May 2010 13:29:58 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -106.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-106.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 55dX-XL-HU4i; Tue, 11 May 2010 13:29:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail120.messagelabs.com (mail120.messagelabs.com [216.82.250.83]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9D71F3A69E4; Tue, 11 May 2010 13:28:11 -0700 (PDT) X-VirusChecked: Checked X-Env-Sender: tony@att.com X-Msg-Ref: server-9.tower-120.messagelabs.com!1273609679!55845038!1 X-StarScan-Version: 6.2.4; banners=-,-,- X-Originating-IP: [144.160.20.145] Received: (qmail 21369 invoked from network); 11 May 2010 20:28:00 -0000 Received: from sbcsmtp6.sbc.com (HELO mlpd192.enaf.sfdc.sbc.com) (144.160.20.145) by server-9.tower-120.messagelabs.com with DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA encrypted SMTP; 11 May 2010 20:28:00 -0000 Received: from enaf.sfdc.sbc.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mlpd192.enaf.sfdc.sbc.com (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id o4BKSC2h027972; Tue, 11 May 2010 16:28:12 -0400 Received: from alpd052.aldc.att.com (alpd052.aldc.att.com [130.8.42.31]) by mlpd192.enaf.sfdc.sbc.com (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id o4BKSBVQ027950; Tue, 11 May 2010 16:28:11 -0400 Received: from aldc.att.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by alpd052.aldc.att.com (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id o4BKRvaC009722; Tue, 11 May 2010 16:27:57 -0400 Received: from maillennium.att.com (mailgw1.maillennium.att.com [135.25.114.99]) by alpd052.aldc.att.com (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id o4BKRrZK009609; Tue, 11 May 2010 16:27:53 -0400 Received: from [135.25.190.148] (njcdtl02ga7127.ugd.att.com[135.25.190.148]) by maillennium.att.com (mailgw1) with ESMTP id <20100511202751gw100b8ilqe> (Authid: tony); Tue, 11 May 2010 20:27:53 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [135.25.190.148] Message-ID: <4BE9BDC6.7070303@att.com> Date: Tue, 11 May 2010 16:27:50 -0400 From: Tony Hansen User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 6.0; en-US; rv:1.9.1.7) Gecko/20100111 Thunderbird/3.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Jeffrey Hutzelman Subject: Re: [sasl] SASL and KITTEN-WG Merger References: <4BE1E547.5030103@oracle.com> <4BE5518B.7060101@cisco.com> <87ljbtumzm.fsf@mocca.josefsson.org> <20100510145648.GO9429@oracle.com> <11586_1273508712_o4AGPBeI021842_4BE82041.9070507@cisco.com> <176E8F86825AF9BE457A43D2@minbar.fac.cs.cmu.edu> In-Reply-To: <176E8F86825AF9BE457A43D2@minbar.fac.cs.cmu.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 11 May 2010 13:38:27 -0700 Cc: kitten@ietf.org, Simon Josefsson , sasl@ietf.org, Eliot Lear X-BeenThere: kitten@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Common Authentication Technologies - Next Generation List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 11 May 2010 20:29:59 -0000 what's a good retronym for KABOODLE? On 5/11/2010 2:12 PM, Jeffrey Hutzelman wrote: > --On Monday, May 10, 2010 05:03:29 PM +0200 Eliot Lear > wrote: > > Also, I'll just point out that this is our >> opportunity for a new SASSY WG name (KITTEN-KABOODLE?) ;-) > > Absolutely not. Working group acronyms containing dashes are a major > pain. > :-) From tlyu@mit.edu Wed May 12 14:42:11 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: kitten@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: kitten@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 18E353A690C; Wed, 12 May 2010 14:42:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.445 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.445 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.444, BAYES_50=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id z3w4oLTRGYGv; Wed, 12 May 2010 14:42:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dmz-mailsec-scanner-7.mit.edu (DMZ-MAILSEC-SCANNER-7.MIT.EDU [18.7.68.36]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F30453A69A4; Wed, 12 May 2010 14:41:55 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: 12074424-b7b9dae000002832-5b-4beb2099cf3c Received: from mailhub-auth-4.mit.edu (MAILHUB-AUTH-4.MIT.EDU [18.7.62.39]) by dmz-mailsec-scanner-7.mit.edu (Symantec Brightmail Gateway) with SMTP id 87.5D.10290.9902BEB4; Wed, 12 May 2010 17:41:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from outgoing.mit.edu (OUTGOING-AUTH.MIT.EDU [18.7.22.103]) by mailhub-auth-4.mit.edu (8.13.8/8.9.2) with ESMTP id o4CLfj7T025473; Wed, 12 May 2010 17:41:45 -0400 Received: from cathode-dark-space.mit.edu (CATHODE-DARK-SPACE.MIT.EDU [18.18.1.96]) (authenticated bits=56) (User authenticated as tlyu@ATHENA.MIT.EDU) by outgoing.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.12.4) with ESMTP id o4CLfha7010200 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT); Wed, 12 May 2010 17:41:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from tlyu@localhost) by cathode-dark-space.mit.edu (8.12.9.20060308) id o4CLfhwJ016412; Wed, 12 May 2010 17:41:43 -0400 (EDT) To: Nicolas Williams Subject: Re: [sasl] SASL and KITTEN-WG Merger References: <4BE1E547.5030103@oracle.com> <20100506164630.GU9429@oracle.com> From: Tom Yu Date: Wed, 12 May 2010 17:41:43 -0400 In-Reply-To: <20100506164630.GU9429@oracle.com> (Nicolas Williams's message of "Thu, 6 May 2010 11:46:31 -0500") Message-ID: Lines: 10 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== Cc: kitten@ietf.org, sasl@ietf.org X-BeenThere: kitten@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Common Authentication Technologies - Next Generation List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 12 May 2010 21:42:11 -0000 Nicolas Williams writes: > I'm also curious as to the name of the new WG. I'd be fine with keeping > either of KITTEN or SASL as the name for the new WG. I'd also be happy > with a new name. I propose something like MOGGIES = Mechanisms Of Generating Generically Interoperable & Effective Security From lear@cisco.com Thu May 13 00:41:58 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: kitten@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: kitten@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D1913A6936; Thu, 13 May 2010 00:41:58 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -8.009 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-8.009 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=2.590, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fPEDPLvaWHww; Thu, 13 May 2010 00:41:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ams-iport-1.cisco.com (ams-iport-1.cisco.com [144.254.224.140]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 73AC63A67DB; Thu, 13 May 2010 00:41:56 -0700 (PDT) Authentication-Results: ams-iport-1.cisco.com; dkim=neutral (message not signed) header.i=none X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AskBAH9J60uQ/uCWe2dsb2JhbACDF5sTFQEBFiIGHKIEiHSQRIEmgwFrBI89 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.53,220,1272844800"; d="scan'208";a="61209408" Received: from ams-core-1.cisco.com ([144.254.224.150]) by ams-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 13 May 2010 07:41:45 +0000 Received: from dhcp-10-61-96-203.cisco.com (dhcp-10-61-96-203.cisco.com [10.61.96.203]) by ams-core-1.cisco.com (8.13.8/8.14.3) with ESMTP id o4D7fjGs021256; Thu, 13 May 2010 07:41:45 GMT Message-ID: <4BEBAD17.10908@cisco.com> Date: Thu, 13 May 2010 09:41:11 +0200 From: Eliot Lear User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X 10.6; en-US; rv:1.9.2.5pre) Gecko/20100512 Lanikai/3.1pre MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Tom Yu Subject: Re: [sasl] SASL and KITTEN-WG Merger References: <4BE1E547.5030103@oracle.com> <20100506164630.GU9429@oracle.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: kitten@ietf.org, sasl@ietf.org X-BeenThere: kitten@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Common Authentication Technologies - Next Generation List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 May 2010 07:41:58 -0000 On 5/12/10 11:41 PM, Tom Yu wrote: > I propose something like > > MOGGIES = > Mechanisms Of Generating Generically Interoperable& Effective Security I like it! By the way, it sounds like if we're all having this excellent discussion over the name, we're all pretty much in agreement as to direction. Do I understand this to be correct? Eliot From shawn.emery@oracle.com Thu May 13 00:47:26 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: kitten@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: kitten@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E8FAB3A6B60; Thu, 13 May 2010 00:47:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.566 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.566 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=1.544, BAYES_05=-1.11, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id y6ol5jNjsAWz; Thu, 13 May 2010 00:47:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rcsinet10.oracle.com (rcsinet10.oracle.com [148.87.113.121]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C7C7C3A6B6B; Thu, 13 May 2010 00:46:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from acsinet15.oracle.com (acsinet15.oracle.com [141.146.126.227]) by rcsinet10.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.2/Switch-3.4.1) with ESMTP id o4D7kVGv002329 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 13 May 2010 07:46:33 GMT Received: from acsmt354.oracle.com (acsmt354.oracle.com [141.146.40.154]) by acsinet15.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.2/Switch-3.4.1) with ESMTP id o4D1kGdZ024662; Thu, 13 May 2010 07:46:30 GMT Received: from abhmt001.oracle.com by acsmt355.oracle.com with ESMTP id 261001751273736783; Thu, 13 May 2010 00:46:23 -0700 Received: from [129.150.12.66] (/129.150.12.66) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Thu, 13 May 2010 00:46:23 -0700 Message-ID: <4BEBAE4D.1050807@oracle.com> Date: Thu, 13 May 2010 01:46:21 -0600 From: Shawn Emery User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS i86pc; en-US; rv:1.9.1.7) Gecko/20100214 Lightning/1.0b1 Thunderbird/3.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Eliot Lear Subject: Re: [sasl] SASL and KITTEN-WG Merger References: <4BE1E547.5030103@oracle.com> <20100506164630.GU9429@oracle.com> <4BEBAD17.10908@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <4BEBAD17.10908@cisco.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Auth-Type: Internal IP X-Source-IP: acsinet15.oracle.com [141.146.126.227] X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A090205.4BEBAE59.016D:SCFMA922111,ss=1,fgs=0 Cc: kitten@ietf.org, sasl@ietf.org, Tom Yu X-BeenThere: kitten@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Common Authentication Technologies - Next Generation List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 May 2010 07:47:26 -0000 On 05/13/10 01:41 AM, Eliot Lear wrote: > > > On 5/12/10 11:41 PM, Tom Yu wrote: >> I propose something like >> >> MOGGIES = >> Mechanisms Of Generating Generically Interoperable& Effective Security > > I like it! > > By the way, it sounds like if we're all having this excellent > discussion over the name, we're all pretty much in agreement as to > direction. Do I understand this to be correct? I'm currently drafting charter text for the new WG and should be ready for review by KITTEN and SASL WG members some time next week. Shawn. -- From tony@att.com Thu May 13 05:00:40 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: kitten@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: kitten@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9DF5B3A69A8; Thu, 13 May 2010 05:00:40 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -104.921 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-104.921 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.922, BAYES_50=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id czKL7kv2grh7; Thu, 13 May 2010 05:00:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail120.messagelabs.com (mail120.messagelabs.com [216.82.250.83]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AFFAA3A680D; Thu, 13 May 2010 05:00:38 -0700 (PDT) X-VirusChecked: Checked X-Env-Sender: tony@att.com X-Msg-Ref: server-4.tower-120.messagelabs.com!1273752027!48603704!1 X-StarScan-Version: 6.2.4; banners=-,-,- X-Originating-IP: [144.160.20.145] Received: (qmail 391 invoked from network); 13 May 2010 12:00:28 -0000 Received: from sbcsmtp6.sbc.com (HELO mlpd192.enaf.sfdc.sbc.com) (144.160.20.145) by server-4.tower-120.messagelabs.com with DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA encrypted SMTP; 13 May 2010 12:00:28 -0000 Received: from enaf.sfdc.sbc.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mlpd192.enaf.sfdc.sbc.com (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id o4DC0eqm030463; Thu, 13 May 2010 08:00:40 -0400 Received: from alpd052.aldc.att.com (alpd052.aldc.att.com [130.8.42.31]) by mlpd192.enaf.sfdc.sbc.com (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id o4DC0Y1c030360; Thu, 13 May 2010 08:00:34 -0400 Received: from aldc.att.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by alpd052.aldc.att.com (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id o4DC0K6k023832; Thu, 13 May 2010 08:00:20 -0400 Received: from maillennium.att.com (dns.maillennium.att.com [135.25.114.99]) by alpd052.aldc.att.com (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id o4DC0Ejm023447; Thu, 13 May 2010 08:00:14 -0400 Received: from [135.70.233.3] (vpn-135-70-233-3.vpn.east.att.com[135.70.233.3]) by maillennium.att.com (mailgw1) with ESMTP id <20100513120014gw100b8itoe> (Authid: tony); Thu, 13 May 2010 12:00:14 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [135.70.233.3] Message-ID: <4BEBE9CA.8030902@att.com> Date: Thu, 13 May 2010 08:00:10 -0400 From: Tony Hansen User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 6.0; en-US; rv:1.9.1.7) Gecko/20100111 Thunderbird/3.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: kitten@ietf.org, sasl@ietf.org Subject: Re: [sasl] SASL and KITTEN-WG Merger References: <4BE1E547.5030103@oracle.com> <20100506164630.GU9429@oracle.com> <4BEBAD17.10908@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <4BEBAD17.10908@cisco.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: kitten@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Common Authentication Technologies - Next Generation List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 May 2010 12:00:40 -0000 I haven't seen any nay-sayers. I'm in the "ok, fine by me" camp myself. Tony Hansen On 5/13/2010 3:41 AM, Eliot Lear wrote: > On 5/12/10 11:41 PM, Tom Yu wrote: >> I propose something like >> >> MOGGIES = >> Mechanisms Of Generating Generically Interoperable& Effective Security > > I like it! > > By the way, it sounds like if we're all having this excellent > discussion over the name, we're all pretty much in agreement as to > direction. Do I understand this to be correct? > > Eliot From mrex@sap.com Fri May 14 11:13:37 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: kitten@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: kitten@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 870E43A67BD; Fri, 14 May 2010 11:13:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -7.717 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-7.717 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.068, BAYES_50=0.001, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zmbLTikBSuR3; Fri, 14 May 2010 11:13:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtpde01.sap-ag.de (smtpde01.sap-ag.de [155.56.68.171]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 574D53A67AE; Fri, 14 May 2010 11:13:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.sap.corp by smtpde01.sap-ag.de (26) with ESMTP id o4EIDMfV004103 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 14 May 2010 20:13:22 +0200 (MEST) From: Martin Rex Message-Id: <201005141813.o4EIDLaP026201@fs4113.wdf.sap.corp> Subject: Re: [sasl] SASL and KITTEN-WG Merger To: lear@cisco.com (Eliot Lear) Date: Fri, 14 May 2010 20:13:21 +0200 (MEST) In-Reply-To: <4BEBAD17.10908@cisco.com> from "Eliot Lear" at May 13, 10 09:41:11 am MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Scanner: Virus Scanner virwal07 X-SAP: out Cc: kitten@ietf.org, sasl@ietf.org, tlyu@MIT.EDU X-BeenThere: kitten@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list Reply-To: mrex@sap.com List-Id: Common Authentication Technologies - Next Generation List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 14 May 2010 18:13:37 -0000 Eliot Lear wrote: > > On 5/12/10 11:41 PM, Tom Yu wrote: > > I propose something like > > > > MOGGIES = > > Mechanisms Of Generating Generically Interoperable& Effective Security > > I like it! > > By the way, it sounds like if we're all having this excellent discussion > over the name, we're all pretty much in agreement as to direction. Do I > understand this to be correct? I'm fine with whatever active participants and chairs of both WGs seem fit. IIRC, SASL (rfc2222) was not a chartered work item of CAT, but instead an individual submission of John Myers. However, SASL was reviewed by active CAT participants and CAT meeting time was provided on IETF Meetings for presenting SASL progress. -Martin From hartmans@mit.edu Fri May 14 12:21:04 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: kitten@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: kitten@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 34C6E28C160; Fri, 14 May 2010 12:21:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.285 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.285 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.620, BAYES_50=0.001, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id E2cThnTUVrei; Fri, 14 May 2010 12:21:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.suchdamage.org (permutation-city.suchdamage.org [69.25.196.28]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9D9F03A6BFE; Fri, 14 May 2010 12:19:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from carter-zimmerman.suchdamage.org (carter-zimmerman.suchdamage.org [69.25.196.178]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "laptop", Issuer "laptop" (not verified)) by mail.suchdamage.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 76B7B20239; Fri, 14 May 2010 15:19:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: by carter-zimmerman.suchdamage.org (Postfix, from userid 8042) id 8E89F43EE; Fri, 14 May 2010 15:19:34 -0400 (EDT) From: Sam Hartman To: saag@mit.edu Subject: Summary of Federated Authentication BOF at IETF 77 Date: Fri, 14 May 2010 15:19:34 -0400 Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.110009 (No Gnus v0.9) Emacs/22.3 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Cc: kitten@ietf.org, moonshot-community@jiscmail.ac.uk, emu@ietf.org X-BeenThere: kitten@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Common Authentication Technologies - Next Generation List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 14 May 2010 19:21:04 -0000 I'm told there were around 30 people in the room. That seemed like a good turn out for Thursday at 9 PM. Many of the participants had already read some or all of the proposed documents. I presented a problem statement based on providing federated authentication for non-web applications. Two solutions were presented. I presented work on Moonshot, a technology that combines EAP, GSS-API, RADIUS and SAML to solve the problem. Eliot Lear and Klaas Wierenga presented a simpler solution that uses browser-based SAML and Open ID. The sense of the room was that these solutions compliment each other. Moonshot requires more infrastructure and client configuration but provides several advantages. The browser-based solutions are something that requires fewer client changes. Volunteers were collected from the EAP, GSS and RADIUS communities who would be interested in working on these problems. Some of the work discussed, possibly especially including the Open ID and SAML browser-based solutions may be able to progress in kitten. I and I believe several of the other Moonshot proponents would prefer to focus the Moonshot work in one working group. Other solutions could also be progressed in that group, although we should be careful not to slow down work that could progress quickly in kitten by moving it into an as-yet-unchartered group. There seemed to be strong support for going forward. However, several things to address in a BOF were raised with regard to the Moonshot work. * Steve Bellovin pointed out that we need to be very aware of the operational impact and how this fits with the operational model of the technologies that are used/extended. * Klaas pointed out that Moonshot involves changes to a lot of different components. We need to make sure that there are incremental advantages to each of these changes so they will be deployed: a system where there is no benefit until the end when all the peaces fall together is much harder to deploy. * Klaas pointed out that we need to consider the operational security around how RADIUS federations are deployed. If network access is not considered sensitive today, people may be more lax in the security surrounding their RADIUS infrastructure. If we use that infrastructure to secure more sensitive resources we need to have practices that tighten up the security of the infrastructure sufficiently. * Someone brought up that this is another one of those authentication proposals where user-interface is critical. While we should not lay out dialogues in the IETF, we're going to need to describe the usability aspects of this enough to increase the probability of a good security solution. People specifically asked to look at the following: * Complexity * What can't be handled with simpler solutions * Is Moonshot broad enough in scope? * The UI questions Since the bar BOF, there has been a lot of traffic on the list and work continues. We're definitely going to put together a BOF request for IETF 78. From hartmans@mit.edu Fri May 14 12:23:04 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: kitten@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: kitten@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9B88D3A683F; Fri, 14 May 2010 12:23:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.285 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.285 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.620, BAYES_50=0.001, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ZyfWTvsIcCVO; Fri, 14 May 2010 12:23:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.suchdamage.org (permutation-city.suchdamage.org [69.25.196.28]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 021F928C154; Fri, 14 May 2010 12:22:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from carter-zimmerman.suchdamage.org (carter-zimmerman.suchdamage.org [69.25.196.178]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "laptop", Issuer "laptop" (not verified)) by mail.suchdamage.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7A74220239; Fri, 14 May 2010 15:21:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: by carter-zimmerman.suchdamage.org (Postfix, from userid 8042) id A663743EE; Fri, 14 May 2010 15:21:52 -0400 (EDT) From: Sam Hartman To: saag@ietf.org Subject: Summary of Federated Authentication BOF at IETF 77 Date: Fri, 14 May 2010 15:19:34 -0400 Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.110009 (No Gnus v0.9) Emacs/22.3 (gnu/linux) X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Cc: kitten@ietf.org, moonshot-community@jiscmail.ac.uk, emu@ietf.org X-BeenThere: kitten@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Common Authentication Technologies - Next Generation List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 14 May 2010 19:23:04 -0000 I'm told there were around 30 people in the room. That seemed like a good turn out for Thursday at 9 PM. Many of the participants had already read some or all of the proposed documents. I presented a problem statement based on providing federated authentication for non-web applications. Two solutions were presented. I presented work on Moonshot, a technology that combines EAP, GSS-API, RADIUS and SAML to solve the problem. Eliot Lear and Klaas Wierenga presented a simpler solution that uses browser-based SAML and Open ID. The sense of the room was that these solutions compliment each other. Moonshot requires more infrastructure and client configuration but provides several advantages. The browser-based solutions are something that requires fewer client changes. Volunteers were collected from the EAP, GSS and RADIUS communities who would be interested in working on these problems. Some of the work discussed, possibly especially including the Open ID and SAML browser-based solutions may be able to progress in kitten. I and I believe several of the other Moonshot proponents would prefer to focus the Moonshot work in one working group. Other solutions could also be progressed in that group, although we should be careful not to slow down work that could progress quickly in kitten by moving it into an as-yet-unchartered group. There seemed to be strong support for going forward. However, several things to address in a BOF were raised with regard to the Moonshot work. * Steve Bellovin pointed out that we need to be very aware of the operational impact and how this fits with the operational model of the technologies that are used/extended. * Klaas pointed out that Moonshot involves changes to a lot of different components. We need to make sure that there are incremental advantages to each of these changes so they will be deployed: a system where there is no benefit until the end when all the peaces fall together is much harder to deploy. * Klaas pointed out that we need to consider the operational security around how RADIUS federations are deployed. If network access is not considered sensitive today, people may be more lax in the security surrounding their RADIUS infrastructure. If we use that infrastructure to secure more sensitive resources we need to have practices that tighten up the security of the infrastructure sufficiently. * Someone brought up that this is another one of those authentication proposals where user-interface is critical. While we should not lay out dialogues in the IETF, we're going to need to describe the usability aspects of this enough to increase the probability of a good security solution. People specifically asked to look at the following: * Complexity * What can't be handled with simpler solutions * Is Moonshot broad enough in scope? * The UI questions Since the bar BOF, there has been a lot of traffic on the list and work continues. We're definitely going to put together a BOF request for IETF 78. From Nicolas.Williams@oracle.com Fri May 14 12:45:36 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: kitten@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: kitten@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B4BE23A6925; Fri, 14 May 2010 12:45:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.503 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.503 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.606, BAYES_05=-1.11, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id WaG0mmm3VknZ; Fri, 14 May 2010 12:45:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rcsinet10.oracle.com (rcsinet10.oracle.com [148.87.113.121]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7E8CC3A68DD; Fri, 14 May 2010 12:45:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from acsinet15.oracle.com (acsinet15.oracle.com [141.146.126.227]) by rcsinet10.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.2/Switch-3.4.1) with ESMTP id o4EJjJ6r005560 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 14 May 2010 19:45:21 GMT Received: from acsmt353.oracle.com (acsmt353.oracle.com [141.146.40.153]) by acsinet15.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.2/Switch-3.4.1) with ESMTP id o4EI7kGx015373; Fri, 14 May 2010 19:45:16 GMT Received: from abhmt012.oracle.com by acsmt354.oracle.com with ESMTP id 266589741273866312; Fri, 14 May 2010 12:45:12 -0700 Received: from oracle.com (/129.153.128.104) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Fri, 14 May 2010 12:45:12 -0700 Date: Fri, 14 May 2010 14:45:07 -0500 From: Nicolas Williams To: Martin Rex Subject: Re: [sasl] SASL and KITTEN-WG Merger Message-ID: <20100514194507.GI9429@oracle.com> References: <4BEBAD17.10908@cisco.com> <201005141813.o4EIDLaP026201@fs4113.wdf.sap.corp> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <201005141813.o4EIDLaP026201@fs4113.wdf.sap.corp> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.20 (2010-03-02) X-Auth-Type: Internal IP X-Source-IP: acsinet15.oracle.com [141.146.126.227] X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A090204.4BEDA853.0188:SCFMA922111,ss=1,fgs=0 Cc: kitten@ietf.org, sasl@ietf.org, lear@cisco.com, tlyu@MIT.EDU X-BeenThere: kitten@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Common Authentication Technologies - Next Generation List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 14 May 2010 19:45:37 -0000 On Fri, May 14, 2010 at 08:13:21PM +0200, Martin Rex wrote: > IIRC, SASL (rfc2222) was not a chartered work item of CAT, but instead > an individual submission of John Myers. However, SASL was reviewed > by active CAT participants and CAT meeting time was provided on > IETF Meetings for presenting SASL progress. SASL and CAT/KITTEN go really together... SASL & KITTEN, sitting on a KRB k i s s i n g. Then a HIP XCON EMU ROLLed by and said "BFD, I can handle more peers than you two". From shawn.emery@oracle.com Mon May 17 22:13:05 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: kitten@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: kitten@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F9423A6BF6; Mon, 17 May 2010 22:13:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.164 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.164 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.834, BAYES_50=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id cODgSy5KrY8s; Mon, 17 May 2010 22:12:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rcsinet10.oracle.com (rcsinet10.oracle.com [148.87.113.121]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6DDAB3A6BFC; Mon, 17 May 2010 22:12:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from acsinet15.oracle.com (acsinet15.oracle.com [141.146.126.227]) by rcsinet10.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.2/Switch-3.4.1) with ESMTP id o4I5CiPL009887 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 18 May 2010 05:12:46 GMT Received: from acsmt355.oracle.com (acsmt355.oracle.com [141.146.40.155]) by acsinet15.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.2/Switch-3.4.1) with ESMTP id o4HNPG3d024917; Tue, 18 May 2010 05:12:41 GMT Received: from abhmt017.oracle.com by acsmt355.oracle.com with ESMTP id 273140181274159555; Mon, 17 May 2010 22:12:35 -0700 Received: from [129.150.48.63] (/129.150.48.63) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Mon, 17 May 2010 22:12:34 -0700 Message-ID: <4BF221C1.2090005@oracle.com> Date: Mon, 17 May 2010 23:12:33 -0600 From: Shawn Emery User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS i86pc; en-US; rv:1.9.1.7) Gecko/20100214 Lightning/1.0b1 Thunderbird/3.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: kitten@ietf.org, sasl@ietf.org Subject: MOGGIES Proposed Charter Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------000601080203050901040802" X-Auth-Type: Internal IP X-Source-IP: acsinet15.oracle.com [141.146.126.227] X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A090204.4BF221CE.00FA:SCFMA922111,ss=1,fgs=0 Cc: Tim Polk , Sean Turner X-BeenThere: kitten@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Common Authentication Technologies - Next Generation List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 May 2010 05:13:05 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------000601080203050901040802 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------020603040801080606000202" --------------020603040801080606000202 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit As discussed; attached is the proposed charter text for a new working group (MOGGIES) based on future direction in the GSS-API and SASL space. Please provide any feed-back to the lists by the end of May. Thank you, Shawn Emery and Tom Yu (co-chairs) -- --------------020603040801080606000202 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit As discussed; attached is the proposed charter text for a new working group (MOGGIES) based on future direction in the GSS-API and SASL space. Please provide any feed-back to the lists by the end of May. Thank you, Shawn Emery and Tom Yu (co-chairs) -- --------------020603040801080606000202-- --------------000601080203050901040802 Content-Type: text/plain; name="moggies-charter.txt" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="moggies-charter.txt" MOGGIES (Mechanisms Of Generating Generically Interoperable & Effective Security) Description of Working Group: The Generic Security Services (GSS) API and Simple Authentication and Security Layer (SASL) provide various applications with a security framework for secure network communication. The purpose of the Mechanisms Of Generating Generically Interoperable & Effective Security (MOGGIES) working group (WG) is to develop extensions/improvements to the GSS-API, shepherd specific GSS-API security mechanisms, revise SASLprep with a stringprep profile from the NewPrep WG, and provide guidance for any new SASL-related submissions. This working is chartered to specify the following extensions and improvements (draft-yu-kitten-api-wishlist-00) to the GSS-API: * Provide new interfaces for credential management, which include the following: initializing credentials iterating credentials exporting/importing credentials * Specify interface for asynchronous calls. * Define interfaces for better error message reporting. * Specify an interface for reporting the security strength of GSS-API mechanism. * Provide a more programmer friendly interface for application developers. This working group is also chartered to transition proposed SASL mechanisms as GSS-API mechanisms: * A SASL Mechanism for OpenID draft-lear-ietf-sasl-openid-00 * A SASL Mechanism for SAML draft-wierenga-ietf-sasl-saml-00 The transition from SASL to GSS-API mechanisms will allow a greater set of applications to utilize said mechanisms with SASL implementations that support the use of GSS-API mechanisms in SASL (RFC 5801). The working group shall also revise SASLprep with a stringprep profile developed by the NewPrep WG. This working group will review SASL related submissions as well, including any new SASL mechanisms proposed. Deliverables: * GSS-API: initializing credentials [editor: TBD] * GSS-API: iterating credentials [editor: TBD] * GSS-API: exporting/importing credentials [editor: TBD] * GSS-API: specification for asynchronous calls [editor: TBD] * GSS-API: interfaces/improvements for better error message reporting [editor: TBD] * GSS-API: reporting security strength [editor: TBD] * GSS-API: programmer friendly interfaces [editor: TBD] * GSS-API: transition SASL mechanism for OpenID [editor: TBD] * GSS-API: transition SASL mechanism for SAML [editor: TBD] * SASL: Revise SASLprep with stringprep from the NewPrep WG [editor: TBD] Goals and Milestones: July 2010 First Meeting TBD Listed Work Items --------------000601080203050901040802-- From simon@josefsson.org Mon May 17 22:51:40 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: kitten@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: kitten@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 860F83A6B66; Mon, 17 May 2010 22:51:40 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.39 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.39 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.209, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id QYmfJvi0FvMM; Mon, 17 May 2010 22:51:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from yxa-v.extundo.com (yxa-v.extundo.com [83.241.177.39]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC3EB3A6BD8; Mon, 17 May 2010 22:51:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mocca (c80-216-25-148.bredband.comhem.se [80.216.25.148]) (authenticated bits=0) by yxa-v.extundo.com (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-5+lenny1) with ESMTP id o4I5p41F031247 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT); Tue, 18 May 2010 07:51:10 +0200 From: Simon Josefsson To: Shawn Emery Subject: Re: MOGGIES Proposed Charter References: <4BF221C1.2090005@oracle.com> OpenPGP: id=B565716F; url=http://josefsson.org/key.txt X-Hashcash: 1:22:100518:kitten@ietf.org::xl9kTq9Obe2rLepy:Hce+ X-Hashcash: 1:22:100518:sasl@ietf.org::vqExf7YyssOAdaNy:J8hx X-Hashcash: 1:22:100518:turners@ieca.com::TOanfYWwe9y70wIH:OQ+A X-Hashcash: 1:22:100518:tim.polk@nist.gov::h4d+c5VQeK1kr3rA:X+f5 X-Hashcash: 1:22:100518:shawn.emery@oracle.com::GSOx6Clyi35F2dVo:O8rs Date: Tue, 18 May 2010 07:51:04 +0200 In-Reply-To: <4BF221C1.2090005@oracle.com> (Shawn Emery's message of "Mon, 17 May 2010 23:12:33 -0600") Message-ID: <87iq6lu59z.fsf@mocca.josefsson.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.110011 (No Gnus v0.11) Emacs/23.1 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.96 at yxa-v X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: kitten@ietf.org, Tim Polk , Sean Turner , sasl@ietf.org X-BeenThere: kitten@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Common Authentication Technologies - Next Generation List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 May 2010 05:51:40 -0000 The charter looks fine to me. Do we have energy to also look at moving RFC 4422 from Proposed to Draft? Unless I'm missing something, that shouldn't be too complicated. I recall some implementation evaluation has already started. /Simon From leifj@sunet.se Tue May 18 07:03:43 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: kitten@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: kitten@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3376C3A6943 for ; Tue, 18 May 2010 07:03:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 14BNB2mFulbf for ; Tue, 18 May 2010 07:03:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from backup-server.nordu.net (backup-server.nordu.net [IPv6:2001:948:4:1::66]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F3ED3A686E for ; Tue, 18 May 2010 07:03:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.36.125.216] (dhcp-216.pilsnet.sunet.se [192.36.125.216] (may be forged)) (authenticated bits=0) by backup-server.nordu.net (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id o4IE3OCG004034 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 18 May 2010 16:03:26 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <4BF29E2C.3070007@sunet.se> Date: Tue, 18 May 2010 16:03:24 +0200 From: Leif Johansson User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.9.1.9pre) Gecko/20100217 Lightning/1.0b1 Shredder/3.0.3pre ThunderBrowse/3.2.8.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Shawn M Emery Subject: Feed draft-ietf-kitten-gssapi-naming-exts-07.txt to the IESG X-Enigmail-Version: 1.0.1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: "kitten@ietf.org" X-BeenThere: kitten@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Common Authentication Technologies - Next Generation List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 May 2010 14:03:43 -0000 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Since we passwd WGLC I updated to 07 and bumped the expiration date. Feel free to start the publication process using this version at any time you like. Cheers Leif -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAkvyniwACgkQ8Jx8FtbMZneJRgCfboYZUj8JacAAu56sNUX2KExG s7MAnjJosuMMCXjEWmmgFierkR/I8gOd =UzQ4 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From root@core3.amsl.com Tue May 18 07:15:05 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: kitten@ietf.org Delivered-To: kitten@core3.amsl.com Received: by core3.amsl.com (Postfix, from userid 0) id A89B43A6BDB; Tue, 18 May 2010 07:15:02 -0700 (PDT) From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org To: i-d-announce@ietf.org Subject: I-D Action:draft-ietf-kitten-gssapi-naming-exts-07.txt Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <20100518141504.A89B43A6BDB@core3.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 18 May 2010 07:15:02 -0700 (PDT) Cc: kitten@ietf.org X-BeenThere: kitten@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Common Authentication Technologies - Next Generation List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 May 2010 14:15:05 -0000 --NextPart A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Kitten (GSS-API Next Generation) Working Group of the IETF. Title : GSS-API Naming Extensions Author(s) : N. Williams, L. Johansson Filename : draft-ietf-kitten-gssapi-naming-exts-07.txt Pages : 14 Date : 2010-05-18 The Generic Security Services API (GSS-API) provides a simple naming architecture that supports name-based authorization. This document introduces new APIs that extend the GSS-API naming model to support name attribute transfer between GSS-API peers. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-kitten-gssapi-naming-exts-07.txt Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --NextPart Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="draft-ietf-kitten-gssapi-naming-exts-07.txt"; site="ftp.ietf.org"; access-type="anon-ftp"; directory="internet-drafts" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2010-05-18070153.I-D@ietf.org> --NextPart-- From alexey.melnikov@isode.com Tue May 18 09:28:11 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: kitten@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: kitten@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B10763A69B2; Tue, 18 May 2010 09:28:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.217 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.217 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.382, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dGnb34om+zIY; Tue, 18 May 2010 09:28:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rufus.isode.com (rufus.isode.com [62.3.217.251]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8D67B28C1E4; Tue, 18 May 2010 09:20:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [172.16.2.108] (shiny.isode.com [62.3.217.250]) by rufus.isode.com (submission channel) via TCP with ESMTPA id ; Tue, 18 May 2010 17:20:35 +0100 Message-ID: <4BF2BE33.8010106@isode.com> Date: Tue, 18 May 2010 17:20:03 +0100 From: Alexey Melnikov User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.12) Gecko/20050915 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en To: Simon Josefsson Subject: Re: MOGGIES Proposed Charter References: <4BF221C1.2090005@oracle.com> <87iq6lu59z.fsf@mocca.josefsson.org> In-Reply-To: <87iq6lu59z.fsf@mocca.josefsson.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: kitten@ietf.org, Sean Turner , sasl@ietf.org, Tim Polk X-BeenThere: kitten@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Common Authentication Technologies - Next Generation List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 May 2010 16:28:11 -0000 Simon Josefsson wrote: >The charter looks fine to me. Do we have energy to also look at moving >RFC 4422 from Proposed to Draft? Unless I'm missing something, that >shouldn't be too complicated. I recall some implementation evaluation >has already started. > I wouldn't object to this, as long as I don't need to write the implementation report. I can contribute necessary information for the Cyrus SASL though. From alexey.melnikov@isode.com Tue May 18 10:31:59 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: kitten@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: kitten@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C0DB28C1F9; Tue, 18 May 2010 10:31:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.923 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.923 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.924, BAYES_50=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id D1GR-24eZT1z; Tue, 18 May 2010 10:31:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rufus.isode.com (rufus.isode.com [62.3.217.251]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 017F53A69AA; Tue, 18 May 2010 10:28:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [172.16.2.108] (shiny.isode.com [62.3.217.250]) by rufus.isode.com (submission channel) via TCP with ESMTPA id ; Tue, 18 May 2010 18:27:51 +0100 Message-ID: <4BF2CDF2.2090600@isode.com> Date: Tue, 18 May 2010 18:27:14 +0100 From: Alexey Melnikov User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.12) Gecko/20050915 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en To: Shawn Emery Subject: Re: [sasl] MOGGIES Proposed Charter References: <4BF221C1.2090005@oracle.com> In-Reply-To: <4BF221C1.2090005@oracle.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: kitten@ietf.org, Tim Polk , sasl@ietf.org X-BeenThere: kitten@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Common Authentication Technologies - Next Generation List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 May 2010 17:31:59 -0000 Shawn Emery wrote: > As discussed; attached is the proposed charter text for a new working > group (MOGGIES) based on future direction in the GSS-API and SASL > space. Please provide any feed-back to the lists by the end of May. Thanks for writing a proposal. My comments below (without my AD hat): > Thank you, > > Shawn Emery and Tom Yu (co-chairs) ------------------------------------------------- >MOGGIES (Mechanisms Of Generating Generically Interoperable & Effective >Security) > > >Description of Working Group: > >The Generic Security Services (GSS) API and Simple Authentication and Security >Layer (SASL) provide various applications with a security framework for secure >network communication. The purpose of the Mechanisms Of Generating Generically >Interoperable & Effective Security (MOGGIES) working group (WG) is to develop >extensions/improvements to the GSS-API, shepherd specific GSS-API security >mechanisms, revise SASLprep with a stringprep profile from the NewPrep WG, > I think that SASLPrep should be done in the proposed newprep WG. There might be some bits that might be done in MOGGIES, but at this point I am not convinced there are any. I am Ok with the rest of your list. >and provide guidance for any new SASL-related submissions. > >This working is chartered to specify the following extensions and improvements >(draft-yu-kitten-api-wishlist-00) to the GSS-API: > >* Provide new interfaces for credential management, which include the following: > initializing credentials > iterating credentials > exporting/importing credentials > >* Specify interface for asynchronous calls. > >* Define interfaces for better error message reporting. > >* Specify an interface for reporting the security strength of GSS-API mechanism. > >* Provide a more programmer friendly interface for application developers. > >This working group is also chartered to transition proposed SASL mechanisms as >GSS-API mechanisms: > > What does this mean? Do you mean that they become GS2 mechanisms? >* A SASL Mechanism for OpenID > draft-lear-ietf-sasl-openid-00 >* A SASL Mechanism for SAML > draft-wierenga-ietf-sasl-saml-00 > >The transition from SASL to GSS-API mechanisms will allow a greater set of >applications to utilize said mechanisms with SASL implementations that support >the use of GSS-API mechanisms in SASL (RFC 5801). > RFC 5801 hasn't been published yet. So I don't think we should reference it. >The working group shall also revise SASLprep with a stringprep profile developed >by the NewPrep WG. > > See above. >This working group will review SASL related submissions as well, including any >new SASL mechanisms proposed. > IMHO, this is a bit open ended for IESG. Should we restrict this to SASL mechanisms, or are we saying that updates to SASL protocol profiles are also in scope? I think the answer is probably "no", although they should be reviewed here. On a somewhat related note: is there still any interest in publish "DIGEST-MD5-to-historic" document, or should I request its publication outside of a Sec Area WG? >Deliverables: > >* GSS-API: initializing credentials >[editor: TBD] > >* GSS-API: iterating credentials >[editor: TBD] > >* GSS-API: exporting/importing credentials >[editor: TBD] > >* GSS-API: specification for asynchronous calls >[editor: TBD] > >* GSS-API: interfaces/improvements for better error message reporting >[editor: TBD] > >* GSS-API: reporting security strength >[editor: TBD] > >* GSS-API: programmer friendly interfaces >[editor: TBD] > >* GSS-API: transition SASL mechanism for OpenID >[editor: TBD] > >* GSS-API: transition SASL mechanism for SAML >[editor: TBD] > >* SASL: Revise SASLprep with stringprep from the NewPrep WG >[editor: TBD] > > >Goals and Milestones: > >July 2010 First Meeting > >TBD Listed Work Items > From simon@josefsson.org Tue May 18 10:48:59 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: kitten@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: kitten@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3EF113A6B8D; Tue, 18 May 2010 10:48:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.395 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.395 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.204, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id gZdpH1+W5FQy; Tue, 18 May 2010 10:48:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from yxa-v.extundo.com (yxa-v.extundo.com [83.241.177.39]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C85C3A6CA5; Tue, 18 May 2010 10:47:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mocca (c80-216-25-148.bredband.comhem.se [80.216.25.148]) (authenticated bits=0) by yxa-v.extundo.com (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-5+lenny1) with ESMTP id o4IHlDg9019562 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT); Tue, 18 May 2010 19:47:16 +0200 From: Simon Josefsson To: Alexey Melnikov Subject: Re: MOGGIES Proposed Charter References: <4BF221C1.2090005@oracle.com> <87iq6lu59z.fsf@mocca.josefsson.org> <4BF2BE33.8010106@isode.com> OpenPGP: id=B565716F; url=http://josefsson.org/key.txt X-Hashcash: 1:22:100518:sasl@ietf.org::sZVw4Ecq2MXSMo8Y:4Zch X-Hashcash: 1:22:100518:alexey.melnikov@isode.com::M136F5gIYyRPevPC:1/ir X-Hashcash: 1:22:100518:kitten@ietf.org::An954q0RO6Zt0+eC:6A6W X-Hashcash: 1:22:100518:tim.polk@nist.gov::VlNABa7nVpABAyOf:7Thj Date: Tue, 18 May 2010 19:47:13 +0200 In-Reply-To: <4BF2BE33.8010106@isode.com> (Alexey Melnikov's message of "Tue, 18 May 2010 17:20:03 +0100") Message-ID: <877hn19k66.fsf@mocca.josefsson.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.110011 (No Gnus v0.11) Emacs/23.1 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.96 at yxa-v X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: kitten@ietf.org, Tim Polk , sasl@ietf.org X-BeenThere: kitten@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Common Authentication Technologies - Next Generation List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 May 2010 17:48:59 -0000 Alexey Melnikov writes: > Simon Josefsson wrote: > >>The charter looks fine to me. Do we have energy to also look at moving >>RFC 4422 from Proposed to Draft? Unless I'm missing something, that >>shouldn't be too complicated. I recall some implementation evaluation >>has already started. >> > I wouldn't object to this, as long as I don't need to write the > implementation report. I can contribute necessary information for the > Cyrus SASL though. I now recall one issue that was causing trouble earlier: SASLprep. It wasn't clear (at least not to me) whether it is a good idea to move RFC 4422 to Draft as long as it referenced SASLprep. Now, the references to SASLprep only affect other specifications, not implementations, thus we might be able to dodge this issue completely by explaining that. On the other hand, perhaps we should punt on moving SASL to Draft Standard until we have some clear vision for the future of i18n in SASL. The SASLprep replacement work the WG likely will be chartered to take on may result in an update to RFC 4422, and we could move that replacement document to Draft Standard instead of RFC 4422. /Simon From alexey.melnikov@isode.com Tue May 18 10:50:28 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: kitten@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: kitten@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 595CA3A6AA6; Tue, 18 May 2010 10:50:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.289 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.289 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.549, BAYES_20=-0.74] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id mOi12qTJ1nrj; Tue, 18 May 2010 10:50:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rufus.isode.com (rufus.isode.com [62.3.217.251]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4D81A3A6AC6; Tue, 18 May 2010 10:49:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [172.16.2.108] (shiny.isode.com [62.3.217.250]) by rufus.isode.com (submission channel) via TCP with ESMTPA id ; Tue, 18 May 2010 18:49:14 +0100 Message-ID: <4BF2D2F9.20305@isode.com> Date: Tue, 18 May 2010 18:48:41 +0100 From: Alexey Melnikov User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.12) Gecko/20050915 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en To: Simon Josefsson Subject: Re: MOGGIES Proposed Charter References: <4BF221C1.2090005@oracle.com> <87iq6lu59z.fsf@mocca.josefsson.org> <4BF2BE33.8010106@isode.com> <877hn19k66.fsf@mocca.josefsson.org> In-Reply-To: <877hn19k66.fsf@mocca.josefsson.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: kitten@ietf.org, Tim Polk , sasl@ietf.org X-BeenThere: kitten@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Common Authentication Technologies - Next Generation List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 May 2010 17:50:28 -0000 Simon Josefsson wrote: >Alexey Melnikov writes: > > > >>Simon Josefsson wrote: >> >> >>>The charter looks fine to me. Do we have energy to also look at moving >>>RFC 4422 from Proposed to Draft? Unless I'm missing something, that >>>shouldn't be too complicated. I recall some implementation evaluation >>>has already started. >>> >>> >>I wouldn't object to this, as long as I don't need to write the >>implementation report. I can contribute necessary information for the >>Cyrus SASL though. >> >> >I now recall one issue that was causing trouble earlier: SASLprep. It >wasn't clear (at least not to me) whether it is a good idea to move RFC >4422 to Draft as long as it referenced SASLprep. Now, the references to >SASLprep only affect other specifications, not implementations, thus we >might be able to dodge this issue completely by explaining that. > >On the other hand, perhaps we should punt on moving SASL to Draft >Standard until we have some clear vision for the future of i18n in SASL. >The SASLprep replacement work the WG likely will be chartered to take on >may result in an update to RFC 4422, and we could move that replacement >document to Draft Standard instead of RFC 4422. > > Good point. From simon@josefsson.org Tue May 18 11:02:48 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: kitten@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: kitten@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5BA753A689D; Tue, 18 May 2010 11:02:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.401 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.401 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.198, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id kvpEyjXQo94Q; Tue, 18 May 2010 11:02:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from yxa-v.extundo.com (yxa-v.extundo.com [83.241.177.39]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D6EA73A6A76; Tue, 18 May 2010 11:02:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mocca (c80-216-25-148.bredband.comhem.se [80.216.25.148]) (authenticated bits=0) by yxa-v.extundo.com (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-5+lenny1) with ESMTP id o4II2QQr019993 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT); Tue, 18 May 2010 20:02:28 +0200 From: Simon Josefsson To: Alexey Melnikov Subject: Re: [sasl] MOGGIES Proposed Charter References: <4BF221C1.2090005@oracle.com> <4BF2CDF2.2090600@isode.com> OpenPGP: id=B565716F; url=http://josefsson.org/key.txt X-Hashcash: 1:22:100518:shawn.emery@oracle.com::SQYsuTufsYD8wSYD:51H X-Hashcash: 1:22:100518:sasl@ietf.org::s5kjjRDwjMOUX6yx:8K4Y X-Hashcash: 1:22:100518:kitten@ietf.org::9QCormhZdolh+fG1:Eayn X-Hashcash: 1:22:100518:tim.polk@nist.gov::CdOaJsibcOFkqGsn:Wi3W X-Hashcash: 1:22:100518:alexey.melnikov@isode.com::L5tMYHfAyvZ7Es2R:aOOd Date: Tue, 18 May 2010 20:02:26 +0200 In-Reply-To: <4BF2CDF2.2090600@isode.com> (Alexey Melnikov's message of "Tue, 18 May 2010 18:27:14 +0100") Message-ID: <87ljbh84wd.fsf@mocca.josefsson.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.110011 (No Gnus v0.11) Emacs/23.1 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.96 at yxa-v X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: kitten@ietf.org, sasl@ietf.org, Tim Polk X-BeenThere: kitten@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Common Authentication Technologies - Next Generation List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 May 2010 18:02:48 -0000 Alexey Melnikov writes: > On a somewhat related note: is there still any interest in publish > "DIGEST-MD5-to-historic" document, or should I request its publication > outside of a Sec Area WG? I'd like to see publishing this in the charter. We shouldn't let people use DIGEST-MD5 without a big warning, and I believe we can establish WG consensus around that. /Simon From Nicolas.Williams@oracle.com Tue May 18 12:16:49 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: kitten@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: kitten@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9EF2028C181; Tue, 18 May 2010 12:16:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.173 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.173 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.011, BAYES_40=-0.185, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id hUpMXR1PJxJh; Tue, 18 May 2010 12:16:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rcsinet10.oracle.com (rcsinet10.oracle.com [148.87.113.121]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 898153A6AC0; Tue, 18 May 2010 12:16:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rcsinet15.oracle.com (rcsinet15.oracle.com [148.87.113.117]) by rcsinet10.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.2/Switch-3.4.1) with ESMTP id o4IJGZCN004675 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 18 May 2010 19:16:37 GMT Received: from acsmt353.oracle.com (acsmt353.oracle.com [141.146.40.153]) by rcsinet15.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.2/Switch-3.4.1) with ESMTP id o4IJGVVq022396; Tue, 18 May 2010 19:16:31 GMT Received: from abhmt004.oracle.com by acsmt355.oracle.com with ESMTP id 277283101274210127; Tue, 18 May 2010 12:15:27 -0700 Received: from oracle.com (/129.153.128.104) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Tue, 18 May 2010 12:15:26 -0700 Date: Tue, 18 May 2010 14:15:22 -0500 From: Nicolas Williams To: Shawn Emery Subject: Re: [sasl] MOGGIES Proposed Charter Message-ID: <20100518191521.GL9429@oracle.com> References: <4BF221C1.2090005@oracle.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <4BF221C1.2090005@oracle.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.20 (2010-03-02) X-Auth-Type: Internal IP X-Source-IP: rcsinet15.oracle.com [148.87.113.117] X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A090203.4BF2E796.0097:SCFMA4539811,ss=1,fgs=0 Cc: kitten@ietf.org, Tim Polk , sasl@ietf.org X-BeenThere: kitten@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Common Authentication Technologies - Next Generation List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 May 2010 19:16:49 -0000 On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 11:12:33PM -0600, Shawn Emery wrote: > As discussed; attached is the proposed charter text for a new > working group (MOGGIES) based on future direction in the GSS-API and > SASL space. Please provide any feed-back to the lists by the end of > May. I don't love the name (I keep thinking "MOOGIES", which sounds like something gross :), but I'll live; I have no better suggestions. > * Specify an interface for reporting the security strength of GSS-API mechanism. I'd word that differently: * Specify an interface for enforcing security strength of GSS-API mechanisms. The reason is that "reporting the security strength" of something implies [to me] an absolute measure of security strength, and I don't think it's possible to degisn a good, _stable_, absolute measure of security strength. > This working group will review SASL related submissions as well, including any > new SASL mechanisms proposed. New SASL mechanisms? Why not new GSS-API mechanisms? Why not close the WG (and even SASL) to new non-GS2 mechanisms? Might there be conflicts with EMU? Nico -- From jaltman@secure-endpoints.com Tue May 18 12:29:56 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: kitten@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: kitten@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 143EF3A699C for ; Tue, 18 May 2010 12:29:56 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.304 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.304 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.194, BAYES_05=-1.11, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id AoezH72MhaqF for ; Tue, 18 May 2010 12:29:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brinza.cc.columbia.edu (brinza.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.29.8]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 146FA3A69D8 for ; Tue, 18 May 2010 12:29:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from www.secure-endpoints.com (cpe-24-193-47-88.nyc.res.rr.com [24.193.47.88]) (user=jea31 mech=LOGIN bits=0) by brinza.cc.columbia.edu (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id o4IJTiNN029854 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5 bits=128 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 18 May 2010 15:29:45 -0400 (EDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=secure-endpoints.com; s=MDaemon; t=1274210938; x=1274815738; q=dns/txt; h=DomainKey-Signature:Received:Message-ID:Date:From: Organization:User-Agent:MIME-Version:To:Subject:References: In-Reply-To:OpenPGP:Content-Type:Reply-To; bh=11AtvTbAEA1kGGg8FW S2SdkgER6o4xHg+hGdOP8dju4=; b=ICGqyP0XY/M1ZSxhhbsBe9VbMqXlg8n2f8 sctWWP1kg7Ax1heN8Y7jGrDx6YVlTxhZBOcxgX8CzvWYxKyexpXiQA3bhkmDigwp BBjO3u05m7gmEMwbV6TGDIOiP1e2HIHnMYwt2tBFN/UlJVyu0PY1hPPZ3SlYnHu1 z1eAfhS1s= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; s=MDaemon; d=secure-endpoints.com; c=simple; q=dns; h=message-id:from; b=OnRzITKA/bJvcTWrAi2aVtFarLXcwRPEuslnaadmNdcub4dLvPbvHwWiPB1/ 1jxMOOd4W/65zzahzL4jiSgLzaT8zSI8B1DnhvYoqpTzSsJ/5+qwpj+h1 hAlCHmcafsrxUvSXnKHc+rHuOn0TMuINMsA8crKSKVVQYeKxOLutk8=; X-MDAV-Processed: www.secure-endpoints.com, Tue, 18 May 2010 15:28:58 -0400 Received: from [192.168.1.17] by secure-endpoints.com (Cipher TLSv1:RC4-MD5:128) (MDaemon PRO v11.0.1) with ESMTP id md50000239362.msg for ; Tue, 18 May 2010 15:28:57 -0400 X-Spam-Processed: www.secure-endpoints.com, Tue, 18 May 2010 15:28:57 -0400 (not processed: message from trusted or authenticated source) X-Authenticated-Sender: jaltman@secure-endpoints.com X-Return-Path: jaltman@secure-endpoints.com X-Envelope-From: jaltman@secure-endpoints.com X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: kitten@ietf.org Message-ID: <4BF2EAA2.2000600@secure-endpoints.com> Date: Tue, 18 May 2010 15:29:38 -0400 From: Jeffrey Altman Organization: Secure Endpoints Inc. User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 6.1; en-US; rv:1.9.1.9) Gecko/20100317 Lightning/1.0b2pre Thunderbird/3.0.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: kitten@ietf.org Subject: Re: [sasl] MOGGIES Proposed Charter References: <4BF221C1.2090005@oracle.com> <20100518191521.GL9429@oracle.com> In-Reply-To: <20100518191521.GL9429@oracle.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.0.1 OpenPGP: url=http://pgp.mit.edu Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1; boundary="------------ms030104060408020208060302" X-No-Spam-Score: Local X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.68 on 128.59.29.8 X-BeenThere: kitten@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list Reply-To: jaltman@secure-endpoints.com List-Id: Common Authentication Technologies - Next Generation List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 May 2010 19:29:56 -0000 This is a cryptographically signed message in MIME format. --------------ms030104060408020208060302 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 5/18/2010 3:15 PM, Nicolas Williams wrote: > On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 11:12:33PM -0600, Shawn Emery wrote: >> As discussed; attached is the proposed charter text for a new >> working group (MOGGIES) based on future direction in the GSS-API and >> SASL space. Please provide any feed-back to the lists by the end of >> May. >=20 > I don't love the name (I keep thinking "MOOGIES", which sounds like > something gross :), but I'll live; I have no better suggestions. I think the charter is fine but I too object to the name. Kitten was funny because the predecessor has the acronym of CAT. I don't think MOGGIES is funny. Perhaps if you figured out how to turn it into DOGGIES or PUPPIES. I would much prefer a working group name that had an easy to understand meaning at first glance. 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--------------ms030104060408020208060302-- From Nicolas.Williams@oracle.com Tue May 18 12:48:13 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: kitten@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: kitten@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C4703A6ADE for ; Tue, 18 May 2010 12:48:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.095 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.095 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.097, BAYES_50=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id eFdtpmyDE90O for ; Tue, 18 May 2010 12:48:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rcsinet10.oracle.com (rcsinet10.oracle.com [148.87.113.121]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 882053A6AB4 for ; Tue, 18 May 2010 12:48:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from acsinet15.oracle.com (acsinet15.oracle.com [141.146.126.227]) by rcsinet10.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.2/Switch-3.4.1) with ESMTP id o4IJm2cI028871 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 18 May 2010 19:48:04 GMT Received: from acsmt355.oracle.com (acsmt355.oracle.com [141.146.40.155]) by acsinet15.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.2/Switch-3.4.1) with ESMTP id o4IJjLrb014108; Tue, 18 May 2010 19:48:02 GMT Received: from abhmt002.oracle.com by acsmt353.oracle.com with ESMTP id 277663751274212042; Tue, 18 May 2010 12:47:22 -0700 Received: from oracle.com (/129.153.128.104) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Tue, 18 May 2010 12:47:22 -0700 Date: Tue, 18 May 2010 14:47:17 -0500 From: Nicolas Williams To: Jeffrey Altman Subject: Re: [sasl] MOGGIES Proposed Charter Message-ID: <20100518194717.GN9429@oracle.com> References: <4BF221C1.2090005@oracle.com> <20100518191521.GL9429@oracle.com> <4BF2EAA2.2000600@secure-endpoints.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <4BF2EAA2.2000600@secure-endpoints.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.20 (2010-03-02) X-Auth-Type: Internal IP X-Source-IP: acsinet15.oracle.com [141.146.126.227] X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A090205.4BF2EEF4.014C:SCFMA922111,ss=1,fgs=0 Cc: kitten@ietf.org X-BeenThere: kitten@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Common Authentication Technologies - Next Generation List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 May 2010 19:48:13 -0000 On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 03:29:38PM -0400, Jeffrey Altman wrote: > On 5/18/2010 3:15 PM, Nicolas Williams wrote: > > On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 11:12:33PM -0600, Shawn Emery wrote: > >> As discussed; attached is the proposed charter text for a new > >> working group (MOGGIES) based on future direction in the GSS-API and > >> SASL space. Please provide any feed-back to the lists by the end of > >> May. > > > > I don't love the name (I keep thinking "MOOGIES", which sounds like > > something gross :), but I'll live; I have no better suggestions. > > I think the charter is fine but I too object to the name. > Kitten was funny because the predecessor has the acronym of CAT. > I don't think MOGGIES is funny. Perhaps if you figured out how to > turn it into DOGGIES or PUPPIES. KITTEN wasn't an acronym... A completely uncreative acronym: - SAGSS (Simple Authentication and GSS) Slightly more creative acronym: - 2PALS (Two Peer Application Layer Security) (This one is kinda neat, if I do say so myself, though it could be seen to conflict with TLS.) Funny WG names in the KITTEN tradition: - GASSS (Generic And Simple Security Services) - SASSY (not an acronym) - anything like TIGER, LION, ... (KITTEN, "growed up") - HELLO [KITTy] I like a fair number (four) of the above, and not just 'cause I came up with them :) Nico -- From jhutz@cmu.edu Tue May 18 14:09:28 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: kitten@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: kitten@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 063A13A6ACE; Tue, 18 May 2010 14:09:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.931 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.931 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.746, BAYES_40=-0.185, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id QUiSEebDfNKm; Tue, 18 May 2010 14:09:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp03.srv.cs.cmu.edu (SMTP03.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.217.198]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0E8363A6AD1; Tue, 18 May 2010 14:09:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from MINBAR.FAC.CS.CMU.EDU (MINBAR.FAC.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.216.42]) (authenticated bits=0) by smtp03.srv.cs.cmu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id o4IL9Hcc001108 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 18 May 2010 17:09:17 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 18 May 2010 17:09:17 -0400 From: Jeffrey Hutzelman To: Nicolas Williams , Shawn Emery Subject: Re: [sasl] MOGGIES Proposed Charter Message-ID: <0653C22222CBEBDD0AD1CCFA@minbar.fac.cs.cmu.edu> In-Reply-To: <22122_1274210205_o4IJGi7g000698_20100518191521.GL9429@oracle.com> References: <4BF221C1.2090005@oracle.com> <22122_1274210205_o4IJGi7g000698_20100518191521.GL9429@oracle.com> X-Mailer: Mulberry/4.0.8 (Linux/x86) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Scanned-By: mimedefang-cmuscs on 128.2.217.198 Cc: kitten@ietf.org, Tim Polk , sasl@ietf.org, jhutz@cmu.edu X-BeenThere: kitten@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Common Authentication Technologies - Next Generation List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 May 2010 21:09:28 -0000 --On Tuesday, May 18, 2010 02:15:22 PM -0500 Nicolas Williams wrote: > On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 11:12:33PM -0600, Shawn Emery wrote: >> As discussed; attached is the proposed charter text for a new >> working group (MOGGIES) based on future direction in the GSS-API and >> SASL space. Please provide any feed-back to the lists by the end of >> May. > > I don't love the name (I keep thinking "MOOGIES", which sounds like > something gross :), but I'll live; I have no better suggestions. I don't even _understand_ the name. Or the expansion. Can't we have something that doesn't make me (and anyone not already familiar with what we're working on) go "Huh?" ? >> This working group will review SASL related submissions as well, >> including any new SASL mechanisms proposed. > > New SASL mechanisms? Why not new GSS-API mechanisms? Why not close the > WG (and even SASL) to new non-GS2 mechanisms? Might there be conflicts > with EMU? This WG should review proposals for new SASL and GSS-API mechanisms, and such work should be considered to fall within its general scope, but it should be constrained to actually work only on mechanisms specifically listed in the charter. If we want to work on a new mechanism, we can amend the charter. It should also be willing to provide advice and review on non-mechanism proposals such as defining use of SASL or GSS-API in a new or existing protocol. However, actual work on such proposals should be done in the relevant WG for the protocol in question, and _not_ in the new one. -- Jeff From Nicolas.Williams@oracle.com Tue May 18 14:39:13 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: kitten@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: kitten@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C65443A6A71; Tue, 18 May 2010 14:39:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.394 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.394 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=1.204, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id irZWgmOjDU49; Tue, 18 May 2010 14:39:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rcsinet10.oracle.com (rcsinet10.oracle.com [148.87.113.121]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF03B3A68FC; Tue, 18 May 2010 14:39:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rcsinet15.oracle.com (rcsinet15.oracle.com [148.87.113.117]) by rcsinet10.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.2/Switch-3.4.1) with ESMTP id o4ILd0nD011485 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 18 May 2010 21:39:01 GMT Received: from acsmt353.oracle.com (acsmt353.oracle.com [141.146.40.153]) by rcsinet15.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.2/Switch-3.4.1) with ESMTP id o4IJStsQ032403; Tue, 18 May 2010 21:38:59 GMT Received: from abhmt007.oracle.com by acsmt353.oracle.com with ESMTP id 278280271274218726; Tue, 18 May 2010 14:38:46 -0700 Received: from oracle.com (/129.153.128.104) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Tue, 18 May 2010 14:38:45 -0700 Date: Tue, 18 May 2010 16:38:40 -0500 From: Nicolas Williams To: Jeffrey Hutzelman Subject: Re: [sasl] MOGGIES Proposed Charter Message-ID: <20100518213840.GO9429@oracle.com> References: <4BF221C1.2090005@oracle.com> <22122_1274210205_o4IJGi7g000698_20100518191521.GL9429@oracle.com> <0653C22222CBEBDD0AD1CCFA@minbar.fac.cs.cmu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <0653C22222CBEBDD0AD1CCFA@minbar.fac.cs.cmu.edu> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.20 (2010-03-02) X-Auth-Type: Internal IP X-Source-IP: rcsinet15.oracle.com [148.87.113.117] X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A090203.4BF308F7.002B:SCFMA4539811,ss=1,fgs=0 Cc: kitten@ietf.org, sasl@ietf.org, Tim Polk