Subject: [L1vpn] IETF63 L1VPN WG Draft Minutes

From: Tomonori TAKEDA <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2005 03:54:27 +0900

Hi,

Here is the draft minutes of IETF63 L1VPN WG. Thanks to Don Fedyk and
Deborah Brungard for taking the minutes.

Please send comments or corrections, if any.

-------------------------------------------------------------
Layer 1 Virtual Private Networks (l1vpn)

TUESDAY, August 2 at 1630-1800
===============================

CHAIRS: Hamid Ould-Brahim <[email-masked]>
        Adrian Farrel <[email-masked]>
        Tomonori Takeda <[email-masked]>

----------------------------------------------------------
1) Group Admin
   chairs
-  Blue sheets, minute takers, admin, agenda bashing
----------------------------------------------------------

Hamid Ould-Brahim went over the agenda.

----------------------------------------------------------
2) Welcome to L1VPN
   ADs
- Welcome and context
----------------------------------------------------------

- Alex Zinin: You asked for it and you got it. Looking for rapid
  progress on protocol aspects from the group. Three chairs for L1VPN in
  tradition of VPN working groups (joke).

----------------------------------------------------------
3) Goals, objectives and milestones of the WG
   chairs
- Scope, milestones, priorities
----------------------------------------------------------

Tomonori Takeda went over the charter. Stated that the basic mode is the
initial focus.

- Adrian Farrel: Reminders to WG on Goals and non goals. You can help
  reaching Milestones and you will be Adrian's friend. 

----------------------------------------------------------
4) SG13 status and Recommendations
   Marco Carugi
----------------------------------------------------------

Marco Carugi went over the slide, summarized the L1VPN working in the
ITU and the interaction with the IETF to date.

----------------------------------------------------------
5) IETF framework draft
   Tomonori Takeda
   draft-takeda-l1vpn-framework-04.txt 
----------------------------------------------------------

Tomonori Takeda went over the slide, summarizing mode/models and
requirements.

- Hamid Ould-Brahim: Who has read ? some show of hands
- Adrain Farrel: Please read this I-D as this is basic to work for going
  forward.

---------------------------------------------------------
6) Generalized VPN draft
   Hamid Ould-Brahim
   draft-ouldbrahim-ppvpn-gvpn-bgpgmpls-06.txt 
---------------------------------------------------------

Hamid Ould-Brahim went over the slide, summarizing the models and
functionalities.

---------------------------------------------------------
7 )GMPLS Overlay draft Adrian Farrel (5 mins) 
draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-overlay-05.txt 
---------------------------------------------------------

In RFC Editor Queue currently. Adrian noted that the draft addresses
both gmpls core networks and non-gmpls, here we are addressing gmpls
core networks. L1VPN model from overlay draft is used as model in
applicability draft.

---------------------------------------------------------
8) Applicability and Solutions
   Dimitri Papadimitriou
   draft-takeda-l1vpn-applicability-03.txt 
---------------------------------------------------------

Dimitri Papadimitriou went over the slide, explaining the purpose of 
the draft and basic mode solutions. 

- Adrian Farrel: Are there missing requirements?
- Dimitri Papadimitriou: Who read the draft? - a few show of hands
- Hamid Ould-Brahim: Suggest read the draft and provide comments.

- Lou Berger: One Comment. How do you identify the VPN specific
  addresses across the provider network, address translation, address
  resolution?
- Dimitri Papadimitriou: The procedures will be part of detailing the
  operations.
- Lou Berger: That implies a routing solution?
- Hamid Ould-Brahim: Not necessarily. The membership identity depends on
  the model. Can be implicit or explicit.
- Lou Berer: What about the Ports? Addresses may be different in
  different solutions. 
- Yakov Rekhter: We have auto discovery. As part of auto discovery we
  can do it.

--------------------------------------------------------
9) Solutions discussion (Basic Mode only)
   Chairs
--------------------------------------------------------

Hamid Ould-Brahim went over the slide, explaining dates and targets.

- Bijan Jabbari: If you had a Pseudo wire and you are running SDH/SONET
  on it, does this working group preclude this scenario?
- Hamid Ould-Brahim: We are emphasizing l1vpn and gmpls.
- Bijan Jabbari: If you use GMPLS for it? Is it an L1VPN?
- Adrian Farrel: If it is L1VPN service over GMPLS-based network, would
  be OK.
- Alex Zinin: Is there a document on that?
- Bijan Jabbari: No.
- Alex Zinin: Need to understand what's different. Need a draft to
  understand what you are looking for.
- Kireeti Kompella: We discussed overlap of PWE3 and L2VPN before. We
  separated it. PWE3 is set up PW. L2VPN is beyond that. So they are
  different. Here it is a cleaner separation as we are not impacting 
  how it is transported over the network.
- Igor Bryskin: Agree with Kireeti. L1VPN is far wider than PW, and it's
  orthogonal. We are talking about the control plane connecting
  circuits. It is pretty much orthogonal.

- Kireeti Kompella: Speaking of running before we can walk. Things like
  scheduling. First I discover. Then I make the connection. I may not
  want to make the connection right away. We have not done anything that
  is time bounded. That is a reasonable question. Adding a time
  dimension.
- Bijan Jabbari: We do have a dedicated resource for a schedule so many
  days ahead of time. I do not know whether the scheduling problem fits.
  I'm not sure whether the scheduling problem fits with the charter of
  the WG. If you could mention in the framework draft.
- Adrian Farrel: Please write it. 
- Otto Kreiter: Research network in Europe there is a big demand.
  Perhaps we can introduce the scheduling. 
- Adrian Farrel: Can you write some text proposal on this requirement?
- Igor Bryskin: Can be answered simply, I am buying not a connection, I
  am buying a connectivity, so should be a guarantee, that the network
  will be available.
- Kireeti Kompella: The problem of knowing if there is enough capacity
  at some scheduled time in the future we have not looked at, need to
  add the time dimension.

- Mark Townsley: Adding time dimension is interesting. If this is
  proposed here to do time dimension, should also circulate to other
  groups, L2VPN, etc.
- Adrian Farrel: Do you think this type of requirement is greater
  relative to the size of the connection?
- Kireeti Kompella: Not so much greater with the size of the
  connectivity. It is the nature of the problem. L2VPNs I setup right
  away. In L1VPNs I set this up in the future.
- Bijan Jabbari: Bigger chance of aggregation in L2 and L3. The demand
  is not that big.
- Loa Andersson: There are such services in the MPLS world, the most
  stringent requirement is to get it to the customer on-time with tenths
  of secs, and to be able to delete again.
- Igor Bryskin: Connection vs Connectivity. Each will get the connection
  but what he needs is connectivity on demand.
- George Swallow: Much more complexity for managing to do scheduling, so
  may only be for large pipes that need this.
- Bijan Jabbari(?): There is info available on this.

- Himanshu Shah: MPLS forum has the MPLS UNI. This seems like that. 
- Yakov Rekhter: IETF has it's own UNI, other SDOs can do UNI but it's
  their problem, first we should do IETF UNI.

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