Subject: Re: [Ltru] Record-Jar Format (was RE: I'm really confused by chinese in 3066bis)

From: "Doug Ewell" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 12 May 2008 21:12:18 -0600

Debbie Garside <debbie at ictmarketing dot co dot uk> wrote:

> If we really want Joe Public to start tagging data correctly we need 
> to facilitate the provision of data in an XML format that can be 
> imported into proprietary software.  Frank and I did some work on this 
> many moons ago and we were about 99% of the way there - this needs to 
> be completed and made publicly available.  I'm not suggesting that 
> this should form part of the RFC but a tool should be created and (if 
> possible) referenced within the RFC.  (perhaps via Stephane's site)

Stéphane's site already offers two different XML versions, updated 
regularly, complete with the RelaxNG schema for his version and the DTD 
for Frank's.  There are lots of different ways to represent data in XML 
and I'm not sure what more needs to be done to facilitate this without 
actually changing the Registry format... and we did discuss that 
already, on the list, and decided not to upset that particular apple 
cart.

> And, whilst I am busy sticking spanners in the works, I would like to 
> bring up the idea (again) of being able to reference the RFC within 
> the tag (if desired).  This is extremely important for archiving 
> purposes.

You can do that now, but that's a higher-level protocol.  Just as one 
example, you could embed your language tag in an RFC 4151 tag:

tag:ictmarketing.co.uk,2001:rfc4646:en-UK:2008-05-06

--
Doug Ewell  *  Arvada, Colorado, USA  *  RFC 4645  *  UTN #14
http://www.ewellic.org
http://www1.ietf.org/html.charters/ltru-charter.html
http://www.alvestrand.no/mailman/listinfo/ietf-languages  ˆ

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---

From: Stephane Bortzmeyer <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 13 May 2008 14:06:36 +0200

On Mon, May 12, 2008 at 09:12:18PM -0600,
 Doug Ewell <[email-masked]> wrote 
 a message of 8 lines which said:

> You can do that now, but that's a higher-level protocol.  Just as
> one example, you could embed your language tag in an RFC 4151 tag:

Another nice example is RFC 5141 :

     urn:iso:std:iso:9999:-1:ed-1:en,fr
      refers to the 1st edition of ISO 9999-1, in English/French
      (bilingual document)
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---

From: "Debbie Garside" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 13 May 2008 17:40:34 +0100

Seems more than a little convoluted.  I just want to be able to write:

Language[RFC4646]=zh-cmn :-)

But we better take this off-list if you wish to discuss it further or Martin
will have my internals for garters !

Debbie

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]] On
> Behalf Of Stephane Bortzmeyer
> Sent: 13 May 2008 13:07
> To: Doug Ewell
> Cc: LTRU Working Group
> Subject: Re: [Ltru] Record-Jar Format (was RE: I'm really
> confused bychinese in 3066bis)
>
> On Mon, May 12, 2008 at 09:12:18PM -0600,  Doug Ewell
> <[email-masked]> wrote  a message of 8 lines which said:
>

---

From: 'Stephane Bortzmeyer' <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 13 May 2008 22:32:38 +0200

On Tue, May 13, 2008 at 05:40:34PM +0100,
 Debbie Garside <[email-masked]> wrote 

> Language[RFC4646]=zh-cmn :-)

As already mentioned here, the stability of BCP 47 language tags make
this sort of metadata pretty useless. zh-cmn is and will always be
valid.

But, anyway, if you want to do it, IMHO, it should be done outside of
the language tags themselves. In XML, something like:

<article>
<versionedlanguagetag>
<tag>zh-cmn</tag>
<rfc>4646</rfc>
</versionedlanguagetag>
...

IMHO, it adds complication to a field, language tagging, which is
already too difficult for many people.
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