Subject: Re: [media-types] [dispatch] Proposed/draft charter for "mediaman"

From: "Murray S. Kucherawy" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2021 12:49:06 -0700

On Sun, Jun 13, 2021 at 11:47 PM Murray S. Kucherawy <[email-masked]>
wrote:

> I've folded this suggestion and John's into the draft charter, which I've
> now added to the datatracker so that people can see changes over time as we
> iterate:
>
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/charter-ietf-mediaman/
>
> Please have a look and let me know if this is good enough to proceed to
> the formal part of chartering.  Note that the process still requires two
> review passes through the IESG and one formal round of public commentary,
> so I'm wondering if people feel like it might be close enough to start
> those processes, or if we should iterate here again first.
>
> I've also, per John's suggestion, inquired about whether ISO generally, or
> a TC specific to haptics, is already listed as an approved SDO for media
> type registrations.   Even if they are, though, BCP 13 still requires a
> standards track RFC for a top-level registration, though the path he
> proposes would be fine for all the sub-registrations they might want to
> make.
>

(Adding the "[email-masked]" list, so people there can comment if
needed before I start the process)

An additional question: Would it be better to use the existing media types
IETF list for this work, or should it get a separate mailing list?

-MSK

---

From: Martin J. Dürst <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2021 09:29:36 +0900

> IETF list for this work, or should it get a separate mailing list?

I think using the existing list would be preferable. It's currently very 
low traffic, but should have a number of people on it that can 
contribute, even if just by checking that they are fine with where 
things are going and therefore not raising any comments.

Regards,   Martin.

---

From: "Paul Libbrecht" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2021 08:00:29 +0200

Hello list,

It’s interesting to see a renovation wind about the registration 
process and details.

I am wondering if the group is the right place to prepare an update of 
the registration template so as remove the Macintosh 4-letter-codes and 
insert clipboard flavours for windows and universal type identifiers for 
macOS.

This was discussed a few times on this mailing list.
I have been in contact with a few media-type proposers, some of which 
have accepted a change of their declaration in this direction.
I have been in contact with one IETF-aware person to update RFC6838 but 
that has not progressed.

Thanks in advance.

Paul

> _______________________________________________
> media-types mailing list
> [email-masked]
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/media-types

---

From: "Murray S. Kucherawy" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2021 15:36:41 -0700

On Wed, Jun 16, 2021 at 11:00 PM Paul Libbrecht <[email-masked]> wrote:

> I am wondering if the group is the right place to prepare an update of the
> registration template so as remove the Macintosh 4-letter-codes and insert
> clipboard flavours for windows and universal type identifiers for macOS.
>
> I have been in contact with a few media-type proposers, some of which have
> accepted a change of their declaration in this direction.

There's been no feedback from anyone else, up or down, about this idea.  My
own impression is that this isn't quite within scope of what we're talking
about for this effort, but then again it makes sense to include this now
rather than spin up a subsequent effort or wait for the next train.
Naturally I'm happy to include this in the proposed charter if there's
consensus to include it.

I'm just about to enqueue the charter we have in hand for its first IESG
review pass before it goes out for general review.  If this or any other
change should be included in that submission, please (everyone, anyone) say
something sooner rather than later.

-MSK

---

From: "Paul Libbrecht" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2021 09:00:26 +0200

Hello Murray,

Here are two reasons that I think may be convincing to change the 
template:

- the old Macintosh 4-letter code is long dead
- macOS UTIs are and have always been specified by Apple. Finding 
documentation on them is often a sport. As far one could see until 2010: 
no more registration, applications are free to register UTIs. As a side 
effect of the proprietary nature, it appears that around 2010 Apple 
started to indicate that the `public` subtree of the UTIs is reserved to 
types declared by Apple. Other documentation pages still do not mention 
this. As a result… Some UTI declarations (e.g. in use in widespread 
desktop apps) thus have become invalid. The media-type inclusion of UTIs 
can help against this unpredictability.

You are right that clipboard types tend not to be a super-fashionable 
topic and I find it rather good that this does not trigger a flood of 
mails such as the discussion on the necessity of a new prefix.

Thanks in advance.

Paul

On 23 Jun 2021, at 0:36, Murray S. Kucherawy wrote:

>> have

---

From: "Alexey Melnikov" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2021 17:24:21 +0100

Hi all,

On Tue, Jun 22, 2021, at 11:36 PM, Murray S. Kucherawy wrote:
>> __
>> I am wondering if the group is the right place to prepare an update of the registration template so as remove the Macintosh 4-letter-codes and insert clipboard flavours for windows and universal type identifiers for macOS. 
>> 
>> I have been in contact with a few media-type proposers, some of which have accepted a change of their declaration in this direction. 
>> I have been in contact with one IETF-aware person to update RFC6838 but that has not progressed.
>> 

I am the guilty IETF-aware person...

I am thinking that if we are doing all other related work we might as well tackle this, so I am in support of doing this in the WG. Now ideally I would like this to be addressed as an extension to the media type registration template that list extra optional fields. So I don't want to reopen RFC6838, but a separate draft that updates it would be great.

> 
> There's been no feedback from anyone else, up or down, about this idea.  My own impression is that this isn't quite within scope of what we're talking about for this effort, but then again it makes sense to include this now rather than spin up a subsequent effort or wait for the next train.  Naturally I'm happy to include this in the proposed charter if there's consensus to include it.
> 
> I'm just about to enqueue the charter we have in hand for its first IESG review pass before it goes out for general review.  If this or any other change should be included in that submission, please (everyone, anyone) say something sooner rather than later.
Hopefully it is not too late :-).

Best Regards,
Alexey

---

From: "Paul Libbrecht" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2021 23:09:36 +0200

I am happy to help on this topic if this is feasible.
paul

On 30 Jun 2021, at 18:24, Alexey Melnikov wrote:

>>> I am wondering if the group is the right place to prepare an update 
>>> of the registration template so as remove the Macintosh 
>>> 4-letter-codes and insert clipboard flavours for windows and 
>>> universal type identifiers for macOS.
>>>
>>> I have been in contact with a few media-type proposers, some of 
>>> which have accepted a change of their declaration in this direction.
> I am thinking that if we are doing all other related work we might as 
> well tackle this, so I am in support of doing this in the WG. Now 
> ideally I would like this to be addressed as an extension to the media 
> type registration template that list extra optional fields. So I don't 
> want to reopen RFC6838, but a separate draft that updates it would be 
> great.
>
>>
>> There's been no feedback from anyone else, up or down, about this 
>> idea.  My own impression is that this isn't quite within scope of 
>> what we're talking about for this effort, but then again it makes 
>> sense to include this now rather than spin up a subsequent effort or 
>> wait for the next train.  Naturally I'm happy to include this in the 
>> proposed charter if there's consensus to include it.
>>
>> I'm just about to enqueue the charter we have in hand for its first 
>> IESG review pass before it goes out for general review.  If this or 
>> any other change should be included in that submission, please 
>> (everyone, anyone) say something sooner rather than later.