Subject: RE: Bicasting/Simultaneous bindings in charter (was RE: [Mipshop] Warning: Bicasting and FMIPv6)

From: Singh Ajoy-ASINGH1 <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2005 22:56:21 -0500

Hi, All, 

Well, I think bicasting has been discussed quite a bit in past on original Mobile/IP list as well as here. TCP issue keeps coming again and again. Although it may be a valid concern, I think bicasting may be an useful smoothing technique for real time traffic. So, IMHO, it is a good idea to consider this as one of smoothing techniques and work towards minimizing the impact on TCP performance. I think in some case it may be possible to eliminate the duplicate packet by some implementation trick at mobile node.  Btw, I just noticed that bicasting is already supported by 3GPP2 Fast Handoff scheme (http://www.3gpp2.org/Public_html/specs/P.S0001-B_v2.0_041004.pdf).  3GPP2 fast handoff scheme is similar to Post Reg of low latency handoff.  

Regards,
Ajoy 

-----Original Message-----
From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]] On Behalf Of Karim El-Malki (AL/EAB)
Sent: Friday, August 12, 2005 9:56 AM
To: Soliman, Hesham; [email-masked]; [email-masked]
Subject: Bicasting/Simultaneous bindings in charter (was RE: [Mipshop] Warning: Bicasting and FMIPv6)

Hi
I don't know the IPR details and the author (Reiner Ludwig)
is away. However Gabriel mentioned this to me in Paris and
we are looking into it. In any case, whatever solution is
adopted for better TCP performance, I think that the bicasting
(simultaneous bindings) issue has come up a few times now
and that there seem to be people interested in working on it.
So I would suggest to include bicasting as a handoff optimisation
technique in the new charter, starting from a problem
statement which can be done rather quickly. We can then
find the best solution, including TCP considerations.
I'd like to know if people think this is acceptable.
Rgds,
Karim

-----Original Message-----
From: [email-masked]
To: [email-masked]; [email-masked]
Sent: 12/08/2005 2.49
Subject: RE: [Mipshop] Warning: Bicasting and FMIPv6

Greg, 

I think to be fair to the people that developed
Eifel or sent the charges for the IPR (I'm sure none
of them is on this list to defend themselves) we would
need to know a lot more detail than that to dismiss
Eifel. Like, who is this implementer?? was it a commercial
implementation? 
Of course an IPR holder has every right to demand payment
for a commercial implementation. My understanding is 
that the IPR statement for EIfel is RAND, which is 
widely accepted in IETF. 

Hesham

 > -----Original Message-----
 > From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]]On
 > Behalf Of Greg Daley
 > Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2005 8:40 PM
 > To: [email-masked]
 > Subject: [Mipshop] Warning: Bicasting and FMIPv6
 > 
 > 
 > Dear Mipshop,
 > 
 > I posted about this recently, but it was lost in the noise.
 > 
 > I was at the TCPM WG session where they were discussing
 > a draft recommending TCP implementation practices.
 > 
 > During the session, there was consensus to move the Eifel
 > algorithm, to an experimental section of the document
 > _because_ it has not been widely deployed and because
 > of existing uncertainties regarding IPR.
 > 
 > What was discussed in the session was the occurrance of
 > an implementor being presented with a schedule of
 > charges for licenses by an IPR holder.
 > 
 > Eifel has been described as a way to handle
 > packet duplication events experienced due to bicasting
 > in the draft (section 10):
 > 
 > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-elmalki-mobileip-bi
casting-v6-06.txt

While the IETF (in compliance with its policy: BCP 79)
will not take a position on the validity of the IPR claims,
please be aware that Eifel is not widely implemented,
and isn't likely to be implemented by default in TCP
stacks, due to its experimental nature.

If bicasting is important, it may be worth investigating if
another mechanism is available for reducing the effect of
duplicated packets on upper layer protocol stacks.

Greg

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