Subject: [ntpwg] IETF 97 NTPWG/TICTOC minutes

From: [email-masked]
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2016 04:01:28 +0100

The minutes from the  NTP and TICTOC WG session at IETF 97 are uploaded. 
https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/97/minutes/minutes-97-ntp-00

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

IETF 97 Seoul NTP/TICTOC Meeting - Tuesday, November 15, 2016 13:30-15:30

Chairs: 
  Karen O’Donoghue (NTP and TICTOC)
  Dieter Sibold (NTP)
  Yaakov (J) Stein (absent) (TICTOC)

Note taker: Tal Mizrahi
Jabber scribe: Rich Salz

[1] NTP Chair slides

- Note well applies.
- Agenda bashing.

[2] Network Time Security (NTS)

Presented by Dieter Sibold.

- NTS design team working on open issues raised in WGLC: key exchange, privacy, peer mode.
- Interim meeting held in October, 2016.

Daniel Franke:
- Consensus about problematic issues.
- Ironing out last issues.
- Will be able to send something to the IESG by next IETF meeting.

Kyle Rose: 
- Tried reading the draft before the IETF meeting. Was not up to date according to the October interim.

Daniel Franke:
- Will try to have an updated draft in 2-4 weeks.

Karen:
- Any thoughts on generic document?

No responses.

[3] NTP MAC Draft

draft-aanchal4-ntp-mac-03 
Presented by Aanchal Malhotra (no slides)

The draft recommends using CMAC instead of MD5. Presented this week in CFRG.

Daniel: seems that there is consensus in CFRG working group that CMAC is the right way to go.
Daniel: will be happy to collaborate on that.
Karen: the document should depricate the usage of MD5 as specified in RFC5905
Harlan: agree about deprecating MD5.

[4] Data minimization draft

draft-dfranke-ntp-data-minimization

Presented by Daniel Franke.
(no slides)

Most of the fields in the NTP packet are not used by the server. Can be used for recon about client. 
Consensus in interim: zero out all the fields that are not used.

Karen: how many people have read the draft.

[No hands raised (beyond authors).]

Harlan: Dave Mills will have an opinion.

[5] NTP BCP

draft-ietf-ntp-bcp

Presented by Denis Reilly [remote]
(no slides)

- BCP is ready for WGLC.
- People are encouraged to read it.
- No changes are required at this point.

Karen: we are ready for WGLC.

[6] NTP Extension Fields
    
draft-stenn-ntp-extension-fields
Presented by Harlan Stenn (remote)
(no presentation)

- New draft submitted.
- Current draft reflects Harlan's view of the desired functionality of extension fields beyond RFC7822.

Tal: it would help if we could have a short list of differences compared to RFC 7822.
Harlan: we can generate a diff.
Karen: we are looking for a clarification of the differences.
Harlan: RFC 7822 took some incorrect assumptions.  It is going to take time to analyze the differences.
Karen: ask Tal, Harlan and Danny to work offline to get this document done.
Tal: will take RFC7822 and try to make small adjustments in places it conflicts with Harlan's draft.
Kyle Rose: trying to understand whether Harlan's draft describes an erratum, or changes that replace the text of RFC 7822.
Harlan: RFC 7822 had some bad content.
Kyle Rose: suggest an RFC 7822 bis.

[7] MAC Extension Field / Last Extension Field (EF)

draft-stenn-ntp-mac-last-ef-00
Presented by Harlan Stenn (remote)
(no presentation)

Encourage people to use a MAC in an extension field in the future.
New extension field that says: I am the last extension field.

Tal: a Checksum Complement EF, if exists, should be the last EF. Seems to conflict with the last EF.
Harlan: a Checksum Complement seems to be mutually exculsive with last EF anyway.
Tal: there should be some text in the draft that clarify that.
Daniel: there is some text in the draft about padding. Asked to remove it. Hasn't been removed yet.
Rich Salz: the draft implicitly allows two policies: adding a 'last EF' or not adding it. Nail down a single option. Do not trust implementer, and avoid potential security vulnerability.

[8] I-DO Draft:
 
draft-stenn-ntp-i-do
Presented by Harlan Stenn (remote)
(no presentation)

Provides the capability to learn the supported features.

[9] Extended information draft:
    
draft-stenn-ntp-extended-information
Presented by Harlan Stenn (remote)
(no presentation)

- shall signal extended information about: TAI offset, interleave mode, leap smear, possible others

Tal: there is currently no draft that defines interleave mode. Need some text that explains it.
Aanchal: interleave mode is not described in the draft.
Harlan: interleave mode is in the code, but it has a bug.
Aanchal: there is no specificatin of how to use interleave mode.
Rich: question: there is nothing in an RFC that describes interleave mode, and the only implementation has a bug? Any other documents that describe interleave mode?
Harlan: there are other documents (Dave Mills wrotes some WP) that describe it, but not IETF documents.
Aanchal: volunteered to prepare a draft for the interleave mode.
Rich: does the working group have any documents in the pipeline that refrences the interleave mode?
Harlan: no.
Suresh: propose to merge all the extension field documents, and have an RFC 7822 bis document and an extension field definition document.
Karen: it makes sense to merge the extension field proposals. If we have an extension field about a feature that has not been documented, we first need to document that feature.

Karen: 
- We have 4 drafts that are related to extension field definitions. There is a REFID updates draft that is separate. 
- Feedback from the WG is encouraged.
- Harlan is requested to try to merge the extension field definitions, in addition to the RFC 7822 bis draft.

[10] REFID draft

draft-ietf-ntp-refid-updates

Presented by Harlan Stenn (remote)
(no presentation)

Karen: are there any comments about this draft?
No comments.

[11] �NTP Mode 6 draft

draft-haberman-ntpwg-mode-6-cmds

Karen: Aanchal is requested to make sure the comments she sent were implemented.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
TICTOC agenda items
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[12] TICTOC Chair Slides

Suresh: there is a copyright issue with draft-ietf-tictoc-ptp-mib. IEEE requested to add some text, IETF lawyer rejected this. Currently still an open issue. The draft may not go forward.

Karen: draft-ietf-tictoc-1588overmpls has expired, and will not be pursued further.

[13] IEEE 1588 YANG Model

draft-ietf-tictoc-1588v2-yang

Presented by Yuanlong Jiang

Tal: is there a copyright issue with the YANG model?
Suresh: there should not be a problem, but will have to look into it.
Jodi Haasz: IEEE-SA: we have sent a question to the IEEE, and have not received a response yet.

Karen: this work has been reviewed by the IEEE 1588 working group, and received feedback.

[14] Final words

Karen:
- Virtual interims will continue, once a month.
- NTP working group will need to re-charter.

Adjourned at 15:10.

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