Subject: Re: [rrg] Constraints due to the need for widespread voluntary adoption

From: [email-masked] (Noel Chiappa)
Date: Tue, 1 Dec 2009 09:07:48 -0500 (EST)

> From: Patrick Frejborg <[email-masked]>

    > concern about having a mapping database for routing information

How does the mapping database differ, in terms of being a operational 'weak
point', from the DNS?

(Note that this is an architectural discussion, not an engineering one, so I
am assuming that at the future point in time we are talking about, both
systems have been well engineered, i.e. they have 'good' security: so that
DNSSEC will have been fully deployed, along with some similar-strength
mechanism for the mapping database. Here in the real world, it's not clear
which system will be well secured first; if good security is in the mapping
system from the start, it might actually be secured first.)

For the 'ordinary' user, I don't see much difference: if either is made
unworkable, most applications (web, email, etc) will not work.

For network professionals, there will be a subtle difference, in terms of the
tools available for fault analysis and repair if either system is breached:
if the DNS is breached, traffic which uses 'identifiers' can still be sent,
whereas if the mapping database is breached, only traffic which uses locators
can be sent.

Is that difference significant? Did I miss anything?

	Noel

---

From: Patrick Frejborg <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 1 Dec 2009 17:14:23 +0200

On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 4:07 PM, Noel Chiappa <[email-masked]> wrote:
>    > From: Patrick Frejborg <[email-masked]>
>
>    > concern about having a mapping database for routing information
>

If it is similar as the DNS then it will be easier to research and
understand, there is history data available.

I had a look on Wikipedia, found this
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domain_Name_System#Abuse_and_regulation

And from there this book, has anyone read it - is it worthwhile to
spend money on?
http://mitpress.mit.edu/catalog/item/default.asp?sid=2103A8B5-75F0-49AE-9911-8B87F34E00EC&ttype=2&tid=10205

Is this the direction we prefer to take?

What if there is only a small address block that do have global rules
and the 5 RIRs would be given their own blocks for which they can
define their own regional rules?

I have no answers, only more questions.

-- patte

---

From: Tom Vest <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 1 Dec 2009 10:56:41 -0500

> http://mitpress.mit.edu/catalog/item/default.asp?sid=2103A8B5-75F0-49AE-9911-8B87F34E00EC&ttype=2&tid=10205

It has merits, but readers should be aware that the author was a  
professional political activist for quite (economic) ideologically  
extreme groups before he became an academic a couple of decades back,  
and that every research finding that he's made as an academic since  
then could be predicted based on that past affiliation alone. If you  
share the underlying view that (a) voluntary contractual exchanges of  
private property rights based explicitly and exclusively on the price  
mechanism are the only legitimate basis for making decisions in any  
context, and also that (b) it is definitionally impossible for private  
bilateral contracts based on the price mechanism to ever produce a bad  
outcome, then the book's ideological bias can be safely ignored.  
However, since (a) entails that the IETF, the RIRs, and current system  
for managing root DNS are all fundamentally illegitimate, I might be  
slightly concerned about the long-term effects of cognitive  
dissonance...

TV

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---

From: Patrick Frejborg <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 3 Dec 2009 09:09:19 +0200

> system from the start, it might actually be secured first.)
Hi Noel,

I think I got the message - you are designing a new mapping database,
using experience and lessons learned from the DNS world and making the
new a more robust and secured one.
Architecturally analyzing the approach,  it would be more secure than
the current distribution of routing information.

A question, if I loose my primary ETR how fast is the mapping database
updated to switch the connections to the secondary ETR? Is the mapping
database based upon Dynamic DNS?

-- patte