Subject: Re: [rrg] Widespread involuntary adoption

From: [email-masked] (Noel Chiappa)
Date: Sat, 30 Jan 2010 15:07:19 -0500 (EST)

> From: Brian E Carpenter <[email-masked]>

    > At least in the case of IPv6, this has proved much easier than getting
    > something adopted by CPE vendors or ISPs.

Yes, that strategy has resulted in _such_ widespread useage of IPv6... NOT!

	Noel

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From: Brian E Carpenter <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 31 Jan 2010 09:39:17 +1300

> Yes, that strategy has resulted in _such_ widespread useage of IPv6... NOT!

Indeed. But not because it isn't installed and in many cases enabled.
The problems are real, but not in the o/s stacks. That's exactly my
point - for the RRG problem space, we need to be very precise about
where the adoption sticking points are. For v6 they are in too many
different places, hence the chicken/egg problem.

   Brian

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From: Tony Li <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 30 Jan 2010 12:59:59 -0800

> different places, hence the chicken/egg problem.

Actually, the primary point from all of this is that dissemination of 
the bits is NOT the hard part.  The more challenging part is finding 
equal motivations for all parties to actually enable the changes.

For v6, there was and is no upside for the carriers.  This _could_ have 
been designed in, but the v6 cabal passed.  And so here we sit.

Have we learned this lesson yet?

Tony