Subject: A text transfer mode is needed for the SSH File Transfer Protocol

From: Richard Whalen <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 13:52:33 -0400

We have had a few customers report problems when transferring text files
between dissimilar systems with different implementations of the SSH File
Transfer Protocol.  I believe that these problems would not exist if the
protocol was able to correctly deal with the differences in the way that
different systems store text files.

----------------------
Richard Whalen
Process Software
508-879-6994x261

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From: Joel Jaeggli <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 11:15:13 -0700 (PDT)

which assumes that sftp should treat text files like ftp does rather than 
like rcp does.

I'm not at all convinced that sftp should do that.

joelja

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
Joel Jaeggli	      Academic User Services   [email-masked]    
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  In Dr. Johnson's famous dictionary patriotism is defined as the last
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From: "Dan O'Reilly" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 12:18:57 -0600

SCP = RCP on steroids

Therefore, is it unreasonable to assume that sftp would be more robust to
be able to handle all types of file formats, not just those common to the
UNIX world?  The root problem is that scp/sftp (in fact, all of SSH, for
that matter) is VERY UNIX-centric, and unfortunately, that's not the total
state of the world...

> > different systems store text files.

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+-------------------------------+---------------------------------------+
| Dan O'Reilly                  |                                       |
| Principal Engineer            |  "Why should I care about posterity?  |
| Process Software              |   What's posterity ever done for me?" |
| http://www.process.com        |                    -- Groucho Marx    |
+-------------------------------+---------------------------------------+

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From: Joel Jaeggli <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 11 May 2002 02:49:38 -0700 (PDT)

On Fri, 10 May 2002, Dan O'Reilly wrote:

> UNIX world? 

a file transfer application should not alter files. it makes it very hard 
to do things like compute the md5sums of  a file before and after transfer

I think what seems to bug people is that sftp isn't a drop-in replacement 
ftp. why should it, there are lots of things that are obsolete or just 
plain bad about ftp.

> The root problem is that scp/sftp (in fact, all of SSH, for

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From: Simon Tatham <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 11 May 2002 11:44:36 +0100

> to do things like compute the md5sums of  a file before and after transfer

Err, but if you actually need to transfer a file in text mode, your
ability to check its md5sum after transfer isn't really going to
make up for the fact that the file hasn't arrived in the form you
needed it in!

> ftp. why should it, there are lots of things that are obsolete or just 

True. But the _ability_ to transfer files in text mode is not one of
them. Among FTP's problems are the use of multiple network
connections in today's NAT-and-firewall-heavy world, the absence of
secure authentication, the difficulty of automating complex client
scripts because servers aren't required to give back directory
information in a standardised way, and the fact that text-mode
transfer is the default state whereas most files transferred are
binary compressed archives of some form or another. SFTP fixes all
of these while introducing all sorts of useful features of its own
(random access being a good example); but the _ability_ to do text-
mode transfers is not a failing of FTP.
-- 
Simon Tatham         "Every person has a thinking part that wonders what
<[email-masked]>    the part that isn't thinking isn't thinking about."