Subject: RE: [Sip] draft-ietf-sip-asserted-identity-01

From: "Peterson, Jon" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 17:10:56 -0500

I have a feeling that this is the last email in this thread that I will
respond to. Some (most likely wasted) notes below.

Jon Peterson
NeuStar, Inc.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]]
> Sent: Thursday, June 13, 2002 11:38 AM
> To: Peterson, Jon
> Cc: [email-masked]
> Subject: RE: [Sip] draft-ietf-sip-asserted-identity-01
> 
> 
> Peterson, Jon writes:
> 
>  > Your users can have multiple identities and a single password with the
>  > existing SIP Digest authentication system. Groups of identities can
simply
>  > use the same password (users do it all the time today when they are
known by
>  > multiple names):
> 
> this is not acceptable to our users nor to us.  we have a user database
> that includes one unique username and password per user.  that database
> is not sip specific, but is used for all services that we may be
> providing for the user.  it would thus be totally out question to start
> introducing new users to the user database if one user wants to have
> more than one sip identity.
> 

Your back-office implementation details are not a persuasive argument for
why we should design a protocol one way or another. As I said in my last
mail, it would be trivial to derive a unique username (like 'juha') from a
hinted identity (a telephone number) in your back-office - the protocol
design question (concerning P-Preferred-Identity) is only about what needs
to be carried over the wire. Anyway, the system I described does not require
you to 'introduce' any new usernames.

[snip]
>  > Why is it important that the user be able to choose
>  > one of these 15 identities on the fly when they originate (anonymous)
>  > calls?
> 
> the user simply does want to remain anonymous when he places a certain
> call, i.e., doesn't want to show any of its 15 sip identities.  the user
> most likely still wants the calling party number to be one that belongs
> to the same area code to which he is calling to in order to save long
> distance charges.
> 

So, you're honestly trying to tell me that users will save on long-distance
charges depending on how they hint at their calling party number? Do you
actually work for a telephone company?

Accepting for a moment the insane proposition that phone companies will
allow you to select among multiple identities in order to manipulate the
rate that they charge you, why would this be an end-user function at all?
Wouldn't the end user always just want the cheapest rate? Why not have the
phone company just choose the best phone number for you - after all, they
know the set of valid hints (i.e. calling party identities) that a given
user can supply. Based on inspecting the numbers themselves, consumers might
not always know how to select the cheapest identity. This application
doesn't require any support in the SIP protocol, anyway.

I'm sorry, Juha, but I don't think this is worth the working group's time
anymore. I'd like to ask you to let this (now transparently silly) matter
rest.

> -- juha

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---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 08:52:31 +0300

> actually work for a telephone company?

no, but that is how the telephone network works: it charges based on
called and calling party numbers.

another application is a user having two telephone numbers, one for
private and another for company use.  when he makes a call, he chooses
which "line" to use so that the right calling party number will get
charged.  there is still only one username/password.  

users have been seriously asking this also for mobile phones: two
calling party numbers with a single sim card.  now some vendors have two
sim cards in the cell phone in order to accomplish this, which is really
silly (your term).  so it looks to me that even the 3gpp guys may want
what i'm proposing.

it is the same thing when i login to my bank.  with the same
username/password i can manage my private and company accounts.  the
back doesn't tell me that i need different usernames/passwords for each.

 > doesn't require any support in the SIP protocol, anyway.

see above, how would the phone company know if i'm making a private or
company call?

 > anymore. I'd like to ask you to let this (now transparently silly) matter

are you sure that they are not your opinions that are transparently
silly?

-- juha