Subject: [TICTOC] TICTOC CALL 16 APRIL 2009

From: Stewart Bryant <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 14:53:06 +0100

Notes from the call taken by Stewart Bryant

A number of people had trouble dialing in. I think
that this was because the dialin number is shared by
two services - meetingplace and Webex. It is necessary
to dial 3 to get to the  Webex service before dialing
the call number. If people want I will set up a call
before the next TICTOC call so that people can get
used to the Webex system and the doc sharing tools.

We discussed the TICTOC requirements document.

The plan is to add sensors and legal time, and then
to go for publication with the information we have.

There was some concern that the format that we had
as a group chosen to use to present the parameters
information was not easy to read, and that we
needed to work on it.

Stewart will post a different format to the list
for the Cellular case and we ill see if it works
better.

Need to add a summary to each application section
that describes our conclusion WRT that application.

Need to add a summary to the whole document saying
what we will aim to provide from the protocol.

Metrology parameters need to be added - can't
remember who signed up for that.

Need to add references to where we do the data for
traceability.

WRT to legal Yaakov will add list of applications,
pointer to some ref docs and some small amount of
numeric data.

Stefano agreed to write the summary for the cellular
and the circuit emulation sections.

Karen agreed to write Summary of summaries

Yaakov will provide the Sensor and Legal text

Karen will talk to Sylvana  and hopefully they will
work on  completing the Inst and the T&M sections.

Stewart will get the info for the Networking section

Stewart will write a few lines on the Network
Topology requirements

As agreed at last WG meeting next rev will be a
WG draft.

Next scheduled TICTOC call will be May 7th where we
will review and maybe live edit the requirements
document.

Comments on the plan and corrections to these notes
to the TICTOC list please.

======

---

From: Vladimir Smotlacha <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 16:37:49 +0200

Stewart,

I could not participate in yesterday call therefore I am not sure if

 > remember who signed up for that.

concerns metrology chapter of TICTOC Requirement draft.
I submitted some text about this issue to the list on March 27 but I 
received no response until now so I do not know if my contribution is 
acceptable.

best regards,

	Vladimir

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Vladimir Smotlacha                                 CESNET z.s.p.o
E-Mail:  [email-masked]                              Zikova 4
Phone:   +420 2 24352915                           160 00 Prague 6
Fax:     +420 2 24313211                           Czech Republic
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Stewart Bryant wrote:
> _______________________________________________
> TICTOC mailing list
> [email-masked]
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tictoc

---

From: "Stefano Ruffini" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 19 Apr 2009 22:44:42 +0200

Hi,

as proposed in the call I have drafted some text for the requirements summary of the cellular backhaul and circuit emulation .
Two new sections could be added in the TICTOC Requirement Draft: 3.1.2 (Cellular Backhaul Requirements Summary) and 3.2.2 (Circuit Emulation Requirements Summary). See below.

With respect to the Circuit emulation I noticed that in the requirements table there is "N/A" in the frequency accuracy requirement.
 I think we should have the following text instead:
 "Same frequency accuracy as for the original TDM signal; for synchronous TDM signals the (long-term) frequency accuracy is 10-11, for asynchronous TDM signals this can be in the range of +/-50 ppm (2,048 Mbit/s) or +/-32 ppm (1,544 Mbit/s)."

"""""""""""""""
3.1.2	Cellular Backhaul Requirements Summary
Based on table in 3.1.1, the following can be summarized for the cellular backhaul applications. Two families of technologies can be identified: 
*	those only requiring the recovery of an accurate and stable frequency synchronization signal as a reference for the radio signal (e.g. GSM, UMTS FDD, LTE FDD). In this case the requirement ranges between 15 ppb (Wimax) and 250 ppb (UMTS Home Base Stations). 
This requirement is applicable on the air interface.  In practice more accurate frequency on the long term is required at the input of the Base Stations (e.g. 16 ppb might be required for applications operating with 50 ppb).
*	mobile technologies that in addition to frequency synchronization, also need phase synchronization. This is the case for the TDD technologies such as UMTS TDD. The requirement in this case ranges between 2.5 microsecond (phase error between Base Stations) to several tens of microseconds that could be sufficient for some LTE TDD configurations. There is also a case (CDMA2000) that in addition to phase synchronization also requires the distribution of accurate time of day (3 microseconds max error during normal operation).

3.2.2	Circuit Emulation Requirements Summary
The Circuit Emulation application requires the receiver to recover the same long term frequency accuracy as the original TDM signal. The phase noise (jitter and wander) of the recovered signal has to be limited according to the relevant ITU-T recommendation (e.g. G.823).
There are no requirements on phase or time synchronization in this case.
""""""""""""""""""""""""""""

Best Regards
Stefano

-----Original Message-----
From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]] On Behalf Of Stewart Bryant
Sent: venerdì 17 aprile 2009 15.53
To: [email-masked]
Subject: [TICTOC] TICTOC CALL 16 APRIL 2009

A number of people had trouble dialing in. I think that this was because the dialin number is shared by two services - meetingplace and Webex. It is necessary to dial 3 to get to the  Webex service before dialing the call number. If people want I will set up a call before the next TICTOC call so that people can get used to the Webex system and the doc sharing tools.

The plan is to add sensors and legal time, and then to go for publication with the information we have.

There was some concern that the format that we had as a group chosen to use to present the parameters information was not easy to read, and that we needed to work on it.

Stewart will post a different format to the list for the Cellular case and we ill see if it works better.

Need to add a summary to each application section that describes our conclusion WRT that application.

Need to add a summary to the whole document saying what we will aim to provide from the protocol.

Metrology parameters need to be added - can't remember who signed up for that.

Need to add references to where we do the data for traceability.

WRT to legal Yaakov will add list of applications, pointer to some ref docs and some small amount of numeric data.

Stefano agreed to write the summary for the cellular and the circuit emulation sections.

Karen will talk to Sylvana  and hopefully they will work on  completing the Inst and the T&M sections.

Stewart will write a few lines on the Network Topology requirements

As agreed at last WG meeting next rev will be a WG draft.

Next scheduled TICTOC call will be May 7th where we will review and maybe live edit the requirements document.

Comments on the plan and corrections to these notes to the TICTOC list please.

======

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2009 08:47:57 -0400

Thanks Stefano,

I will add this to the requirements document.

Silvana

"Stefano Ruffini" <[email-masked]> 
19/04/2009 04:44 PM

To
<[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>
cc
<[email-masked]>
Subject
RE: [TICTOC] TICTOC CALL 16 APRIL 2009

Hi,

as proposed in the call I have drafted some text for the requirements 
summary of the cellular backhaul and circuit emulation .
Two new sections could be added in the TICTOC Requirement Draft: 3.1.2 
(Cellular Backhaul Requirements Summary) and 3.2.2 (Circuit Emulation 
Requirements Summary). See below.

With respect to the Circuit emulation I noticed that in the requirements 
table there is "N/A" in the frequency accuracy requirement.
 I think we should have the following text instead:
 "Same frequency accuracy as for the original TDM signal; for synchronous 
TDM signals the (long-term) frequency accuracy is 10-11, for asynchronous 
TDM signals this can be in the range of +/-50 ppm (2,048 Mbit/s) or +/-32 
ppm (1,544 Mbit/s)."

"""""""""""""""
3.1.2            Cellular Backhaul Requirements Summary
Based on table in 3.1.1, the following can be summarized for the cellular 
backhaul applications. Two families of technologies can be identified: 
*                those only requiring the recovery of an accurate and 
stable frequency synchronization signal as a reference for the radio 
signal (e.g. GSM, UMTS FDD, LTE FDD). In this case the requirement ranges 
between 15 ppb (Wimax) and 250 ppb (UMTS Home Base Stations). 
This requirement is applicable on the air interface.  In practice more 
accurate frequency on the long term is required at the input of the Base 
Stations (e.g. 16 ppb might be required for applications operating with 50 
ppb).
*                mobile technologies that in addition to frequency 
synchronization, also need phase synchronization. This is the case for the 
TDD technologies such as UMTS TDD. The requirement in this case ranges 
between 2.5 microsecond (phase error between Base Stations) to several 
tens of microseconds that could be sufficient for some LTE TDD 
configurations. There is also a case (CDMA2000) that in addition to phase 
synchronization also requires the distribution of accurate time of day (3 
microseconds max error during normal operation).

3.2.2            Circuit Emulation Requirements Summary
The Circuit Emulation application requires the receiver to recover the 
same long term frequency accuracy as the original TDM signal. The phase 
noise (jitter and wander) of the recovered signal has to be limited 
according to the relevant ITU-T recommendation (e.g. G.823).
There are no requirements on phase or time synchronization in this case.
""""""""""""""""""""""""""""

Best Regards
Stefano

-----Original Message-----
From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]] On Behalf 
Of Stewart Bryant
Sent: venerdì 17 aprile 2009 15.53
To: [email-masked]
Subject: [TICTOC] TICTOC CALL 16 APRIL 2009

A number of people had trouble dialing in. I think that this was because 
the dialin number is shared by two services - meetingplace and Webex. It 
is necessary to dial 3 to get to the  Webex service before dialing the 
call number. If people want I will set up a call before the next TICTOC 
call so that people can get used to the Webex system and the doc sharing 
tools.

The plan is to add sensors and legal time, and then to go for publication 
with the information we have.

There was some concern that the format that we had as a group chosen to 
use to present the parameters information was not easy to read, and that 
we needed to work on it.

Stewart will post a different format to the list for the Cellular case and 
we ill see if it works better.

Need to add a summary to each application section that describes our 
conclusion WRT that application.

Need to add a summary to the whole document saying what we will aim to 
provide from the protocol.

Metrology parameters need to be added - can't remember who signed up for 
that.

WRT to legal Yaakov will add list of applications, pointer to some ref 
docs and some small amount of numeric data.

Stefano agreed to write the summary for the cellular and the circuit 
emulation sections.

Karen will talk to Sylvana  and hopefully they will work on  completing 
the Inst and the T&M sections.

Next scheduled TICTOC call will be May 7th where we will review and maybe 
live edit the requirements document.

Comments on the plan and corrections to these notes to the TICTOC list 
please.

======