Subject: [urn] URN expert review of 'etsi' NID

From: Peter Saint-Andre <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2018 10:58:58 -0600

Hello Expert Reviewers & others,

I just noticed that draft-mahesh-etsi-urn requests a URN NID for 'etsi'
to identify resources published by European Telecommunications Standards
Institute:

https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-mahesh-etsi-urn/

Although it's not clear which IESG telechat this is on (the responsible
AD, Ignas Bagdonas, can tell us), let's make sure to review it in a
timely fashion.

Thanks!

Peter

---

From: Peter Saint-Andre <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2018 14:22:05 -0600

Upon review, I noticed a few things:

1. The registration request uses the old template from RFC 3406, not the
new template from RFC 8141. IANA requires new registrations to use the
new template.

2. Can you provide a slightly more detailed description of the kinds of
resources these URNs will identify?

3. Can you provide a slightly more detailed description of the syntax
within the NSS?

Other reviewers might notice additional issues...

Peter

---

From: Ignas Bagdonas <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2018 22:27:59 +0100

Hi there,

The draft is expected to go on the telechat after a 4 week last call, 
which practically means it will be at some time after Montreal.

Thank you for looking into this.

Ignas

---

From: [email-masked] (Dale R. Worley)
Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2018 21:53:59 -0400

Comments on draft-mahesh-etsi-urn-02

   1.1.  Terminology

       | PNNS    | Protocol Name and Numbering Service             |

It would be helpful to state that PNNS is an ETSI function:

       | PNNS    | ETSI Protocol Name and Numbering Service        |

   Declaration of syntactic structure:

      The syntax of namespace specific strings for the 'etsi' namespace
      is <NSS> in Uniform Resource Names (URNs) [RFC8141].

This is completely legitimate, but it is not satisfying.  If ETSI has
plans for how it will organize the space of NSSs, it would be nice to
describe them here.

   Relevant ancillary documentation:

      ETSI publishes information regarding the registered resources in
      the ETSI URN Namespace (EUN) registry
      (https://portal.etsi.org/PNNS/GenericAllocation/
      ETSIURNNamespace.aspx).

It's good that ETSI gives the URL of its URN registry; many other
organizations do not.  However, I notice that that URL is
password-protected.  It would be much better for the community if the
registry was readable by the world, since there is no stated intention
that etsi URNs are used only within a closed community.

   Identifier uniqueness considerations:

      [...]  ETSI is expected to guarantee the uniqueness [...]

Formally, this registration is being submitted by ETSI, so it reads
oddly for ETSI to say "ETSI is expected...".   Much better would be
"ETSI will...".

Similarly, "ETSI could..." is used where it is more natural to say "ETSI
may...".

      Note that using experimental types may create
      collision as multiple users may use the same values for different
      resources and specific strings.

It would be very helpful if the registration stated how the ETSI
registry will make clear how to recognize experimental URIs within the
etsi namespace.

Dale

---

From: Mahesh Jethanandani <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2018 09:43:25 -0700

Hi Peter,

> On Jun 7, 2018, at 1:22 PM, Peter Saint-Andre <[email-masked]> wrote:
> 

I will update the draft with the template information that is new in RFC 8141.

> resources these URNs will identify?

I have added a Purpose section to the draft that reads as:

Purpose:
The URN requested in this document will be used by ETSI for allocation of namespaces to be used by YANG modules, to begin with, that are developed by the organization. These namespaces are globally unique. The URN will be used in public networks by devices used to configure and manage resources in the network. It is these devices that will enforce the  uniqueness of the namespaces by using the namespace and the XPath associated with the managed node in the network, when accessing a resource.

Does this answer your question?

> 3. Can you provide a slightly more detailed description of the syntax

Let me work with my co-author to provide you a more detailed description of the syntax of NSS. It is currently under a password protected web site, but the idea is to make it public once we have finalized the syntax.

Thanks.

>> AD, Ignas Bagdonas, can tell us), let's make sure to review it in a

Mahesh Jethanandani
[email-masked]

---

From: Mahesh Jethanandani <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2018 09:56:01 -0700

Hi Dale,

> On Jun 7, 2018, at 6:53 PM, Dale R. Worley <[email-masked]> wrote:
> 

Ok. Will add ETSI in front of the definition for PNNS.

> that etsi URNs are used only within a closed community.

In my response to Peter, I stated that the syntax of the NSS will be specified as part of the ancillary document at the URL specified, and I will work with my co-author to publish that URL such that it is readable by the world.

> "ETSI will…".

Updated the text to say:

ETSI will guarantee the uniqueness of the strings …

> may…".

Updated to say:

ETSI may allow for use of experimental type values ...

> registry will make clear how to recognize experimental URIs within the

That will be part of the NSS definition in the ancillary document. But basically, the idea is use something like :xid:, or experimental id, as part of the NSS to distinguish it from assigned values.

Thanks.

Mahesh Jethanandani
[email-masked]

---

From: Mahesh Jethanandani <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2018 17:18:09 -0700

The following update to the draft addresses the comments raised as part of expert review. The remaining action items are for us to make available a public version of the ancillary document, whose URL was provided in the draft, that describes:

- the NSS namespace and how it will be allocated by ETSI
- how a separate “root” namespace under the allocated URN can be used for experimental namespaces.

Thanks
---------------------------------------------------

A new version of I-D, draft-mahesh-etsi-urn-03.txt
has been successfully submitted by Mahesh Jethanandani and posted to the
IETF repository.

Name:		draft-mahesh-etsi-urn
Revision:	03
Title:		URN Namespace for ETSI Documents
Document date:	2018-06-08
Group:		Individual Submission
Pages:		6
URL:            https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-mahesh-etsi-urn-03.txt <https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-mahesh-etsi-urn-03.txt>
Status:         https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-mahesh-etsi-urn/ <https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-mahesh-etsi-urn/>
Htmlized:       https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-mahesh-etsi-urn-03 <https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-mahesh-etsi-urn-03>
Htmlized:       https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-mahesh-etsi-urn <https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-mahesh-etsi-urn>
Diff:           https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-mahesh-etsi-urn-03 <https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-mahesh-etsi-urn-03>

Abstract:
  This document describes the Namespace Identifier (NID) 'etsi' for
  Uniform Resource Names (URNs) used to identify resources published by
  European Telecommunications Standards Institute (http://etsi.org <http://etsi.org/>).
  ETSI specifies and manages resources that utilize this URN
  identification model.  Management activities for these and other
  resources types are handled by the manager of the ETSI Protocol
  Naming and Numbering Service (PNNS).

Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org <http://tools.ietf.org/>.

The IETF Secretariat

Mahesh Jethanandani
[email-masked]

---

From: Mahesh Jethanandani <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2018 19:18:31 -0400

ETSI has now published a web page that is publicly available and describes the two questions outlined below. Please let us know if there are any questions. 

https://portal.etsi.org/PNNS/GenericAllocation/ETSIURNNamespace.aspx

Thanks. 

> On Jun 8, 2018, at 8:18 PM, Mahesh Jethanandani <[email-masked]> wrote:
> 
> URL:            https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-mahesh-etsi-urn-03.txt
> Status:         https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-mahesh-etsi-urn/
> Htmlized:       https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-mahesh-etsi-urn-03
> Htmlized:       https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-mahesh-etsi-urn
> Diff:           https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-mahesh-etsi-urn-03
> 
> Abstract:
>   European Telecommunications Standards Institute (http://etsi.org).
> until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.
> 
> The IETF Secretariat
>

---

From: Peter Saint-Andre <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2018 18:56:55 -0600

Thanks, Mahesh, that is helpful.

I'm still not sure if we want to make a normative reference to RFC 1737
(an Informational RFC from 1994) in the Security Considerations section;
do you feel that it discusses issues that we left out of RFC 8141?

Other than that, the document looks ready to proceed.

Peter

On 6/13/18 5:18 PM, Mahesh Jethanandani wrote:
> ETSI has now published a web page that is publicly available and
> describes the two questions outlined below. Please let us know if there
> are any questions. 
> 
> On Jun 8, 2018, at 8:18 PM, Mahesh Jethanandani <[email-masked]
> <mailto:[email-masked]>> wrote:
> 
>> The following update to the draft addresses the comments raised as
>> part of expert review. The remaining action items are for us to make
>> available a public version of the ancillary document, whose URL was
>> provided in the draft, that describes:
>>
>> Name:draft-mahesh-etsi-urn
>> Revision:03
>> Title:URN Namespace for ETSI Documents
>> Document date:2018-06-08
>> Group:Individual Submission
>> Pages:6
>> URL:
>>            https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-mahesh-etsi-urn-03.txt
>> Htmlized:
>>       https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-mahesh-etsi-urn
>> until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org
>> <http://tools.ietf.org>.
>>
>> The IETF Secretariat
>>
>>> On Jun 7, 2018, at 6:53 PM, Dale R. Worley <[email-masked]
>>> <mailto:[email-masked]>> wrote:
>>>
>> [email-masked] <mailto:[email-masked]>
>>
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> urn mailing list
> [email-masked]
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/urn
>

---

From: "Svensson, Lars" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2018 15:22:55 +0000

Apart from what Peter already said, I have no further comments on this draft, as far as I'm concerned we're ready to proceed.

Best,

Lars

> -----Original Message-----
> From: urn [mailto:[email-masked]] On Behalf Of Peter Saint-Andre
> Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2018 2:57 AM
> To: [email-masked]
> Subject: [Marketing Mail] Re: [urn] New Version Notification for draft-mahesh-etsi-
> urn-03.txt (Was Re: URN expert review of 'etsi' NID)
>