From uswg-owner@ISI.EDU Fri Sep 4 19:36:15 1998 Received: from zephyr.isi.edu (zephyr.isi.edu [128.9.160.160]) by ietf.org (8.8.5/8.8.7a) with ESMTP id TAA12840 for ; Fri, 4 Sep 1998 19:36:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by zephyr.isi.edu (8.8.7/8.8.6) id QAA23014 for uswg-outgoing; Fri, 4 Sep 1998 16:05:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tnt.isi.edu (tnt.isi.edu [128.9.128.128]) by zephyr.isi.edu (8.8.7/8.8.6) with ESMTP id QAA23009 for ; Fri, 4 Sep 1998 16:05:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from archimedes.nasa.gov (archimedes.arc.nasa.gov [128.102.33.37]) by tnt.isi.edu (8.8.7/8.8.6) with ESMTP id QAA25694; Fri, 4 Sep 1998 16:05:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from archimedes.nasa.gov (archimedes.arc.nasa.gov [128.102.33.37]) by archimedes.nasa.gov (8.9.1a/8.9.0) with SMTP id QAA25750; Fri, 4 Sep 1998 16:05:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Time-In: 19980904230534 Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 16:05:34 -0700 (PDT) From: April Marine X-Sender: amarine@archimedes.nasa.gov To: minutes@ietf.org cc: usac@ISI.EDU, uswg@ISI.EDU Subject: User Services Area Report - Chicago Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-uswg@ISI.EDU Precedence: bulk User Services Area Report 42nd IETF, Chicago, IL August 1998 April Marine Three active working groups were held in the User Services Area (USV) of the IETF in Chicago, IL. The User Services Area Council did not meet. Internet School Networking (ISN) session chaired by Jodi Ito. ISN had a brief meeting to gauge the energy for continuing the group. The Area Director noted that the USV momentum was toward WGs with more focused charters than ISN has, so at the very least the group would have to revamp the charter and come up with something more concrete. There was some discussion of a couple of general ideas, but nothing particularly specific emerged, so the decision was to close the group for now. The mailing list, isn-wg@nasa.gov, will remain active and if new business comes up that has a lot of support, a new effort can certainly be spun up in the future. The AD thanks the chair and the group for their years of work and interest! Site Security Handbook WG (SSH), chaired by Barbara Fraser. The SSH working group met to finalize the last details of the User's Security Handbook. A discussion of the scope of the glossary and some of its particulars was held, with enough progress made for the editor(s) to update the current draft. The group will have a new draft out by the end of September for WG Last Call, then send it up to the IESG for publication. In particular, they wished to ensure that the Security ADs took a look at the draft, so April will emphasize that when it arrives. The group will shut down after the publication of this document, so will be closed by Orlando. User Services Working Group (USWG) chaired by April Marine. USWG had a productive meeting. Progress was made in soliciting volunteers to help update FYI4. A general discussion was held on the need to manage the FYI document space, i.e. what will be updated, what will be moved to Historic status, etc. Information was presented regarding the latest TERENA/ISUS news, the Internet Scout's Project Isaac, and resources for developing countries. The heart of the meeting was a discussion on evolving the methods used by the Area to present information, with a call to do more dynamic formats, more online formats, more focused presentations, and better liaison with the other Areas. Responsible Use of the Network (RUN), chaired by Sally Hambridge. The RUN group did not meet in Chicago. The first of its drafts, , has been sent to the IESG for publication consideration. The second of its drafts, , is now the focus of the group and will be the topic in Orlando. ------------------------------------------------------------------- April Marine GLOBE Program 1-800-858-9947 --> Help Desk NASA Ames Research Center 650-604-0762 --> me (Raytheon ITSS) amarine@globe.arc.nasa.gov IETF User Services (USV) http://archimedes.nasa.gov/usv/ Area Director From uswg-owner@ISI.EDU Fri Sep 4 19:38:08 1998 Received: from zephyr.isi.edu (zephyr.isi.edu [128.9.160.160]) by ietf.org (8.8.5/8.8.7a) with ESMTP id TAA12841 for ; Fri, 4 Sep 1998 19:36:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by zephyr.isi.edu (8.8.7/8.8.6) id PAA22808 for uswg-outgoing; Fri, 4 Sep 1998 15:59:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tnt.isi.edu (tnt.isi.edu [128.9.128.128]) by zephyr.isi.edu (8.8.7/8.8.6) with ESMTP id PAA22803 for ; Fri, 4 Sep 1998 15:59:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from archimedes.nasa.gov (archimedes.arc.nasa.gov [128.102.33.37]) by tnt.isi.edu (8.8.7/8.8.6) with ESMTP id PAA25274 for ; Fri, 4 Sep 1998 15:59:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from archimedes.nasa.gov (archimedes.arc.nasa.gov [128.102.33.37]) by archimedes.nasa.gov (8.9.1a/8.9.0) with SMTP id PAA25707 for ; Fri, 4 Sep 1998 15:59:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Time-In: 19980904225949 Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 15:59:49 -0700 (PDT) From: April Marine X-Sender: amarine@archimedes.nasa.gov To: uswg@ISI.EDU Subject: draft minutes of Chi meeting Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-uswg@ISI.EDU Precedence: bulk Hi all, Here is a draft of the minutes for last week's meeting in Chicago. Now is the time to send me corrections or complaints! If I hear nothing, I'll send them over to the secretariat next week. thanks! April ------------- Minutes for the User Services Working Group (USWG) meeting of August 24, 1998 in Chicago, IL. These were written by April Marine, so any value-laden adjectives, such as "excellent" or "useful" reflect my own point of view! Hint: If you are reading these, I am writing them in the order of the agenda. The most interesting topics for feedback are discussed around the item "Evolving to Dynamic Document Formats." (Note: "interesting" is one of those adjectives I discussed above. :-) o USV Area Report April Marine, USV Area Director, chaired the meeting and presented a brief report on the status of the Area. The report highlighted the status of pending Internet Drafts and noted when working groups were meeting that week. Drafts that were pending were: Of these, the first and last are in the final stages. o TERENA Update In the absence of anyone from the TERENA ISUS (Information Services and User Services) Working Group being able to attend IETF in Chicago, April gave a brief update on TERENA activities, with thanks to email from Peter Valkenburg. Peter is the ISUS Project Development Officer. Information on TERENA can be found at http://www.terena.nl/working groups/wg-isus/. Brief updates were given for the following 4 task forces: ETINU. This task force is just completing their project on Evaluation and Recommendation of User Support Toolkits. An interim report can be found at http://www.terena.nl/task-forces/tf-etinu/report.html. CHIP. Clearing House for Internet Projects is just getting under way. The goal of this project is to start a pilot service with information on Internet related projects in the area of research and education. The original proposal is available at http://www.terena.nl/working-groups/wg-isus/misc/CHIP_proposal.html. CHIC-pilot. Cooperative Hierarchical Indexing Coordination. This pilot project brings together several indexing technologies to run search services across multiple indexing technologies. A pilot service has been set up at http://www.terena.nl/cgi-bin/chic-search.cgi. This work also came up in a BOF in Chicago called METAD (MIME Enabled Textually Accessed Directories). Guide to Network Resource Tools has been printed as a book by Addison Wesley Longman (http://www.awl-he.com/titles/08224.html). However, the online version will be kept up to date and the newest version is always at http://www.terena.nl/gnrt/. Translation rights to the guide have been handed out for 6 languages. Peter made the point in a separate email that this Guide may server as a good model for future publications by USV. o Progress of FYI4 Update Ray Plzak lead a discussion of the work on the FYI4 update. Some of the discussion echoed previous similar discussions, but volunteers were found to help get a new draft out. They were Phil Nesser, Amy Tracy Wells, Ed Krol, and Albert Lunde. Their goal is to have a draft for comment out by mid-October. If there is a substantive draft for discussion in Orlando, April will consider giving this effort its own meeting slot so they don't have to share USWG. But that won't be done without a draft. The consensus was basically to start from scratch since the "new user" audience had substantially changed in the several years since the doc was first written. The References/Bibliography section will be retained, but those present voted to eliminate the current Reading List and Glossary sections. o Status of other FYI docs Phillip J. Nesser volunteered to look at all the FYIs and present an opinion of what should be done with them. He had recently had cause to look for some material appropriate for presenting when introducing the Internet and was disappointed to find many of the FYIs to be on good topics, but out of date. His suggestion is that we move some to Historic, and update others, notably FYI4. During the discussion, the suggestion was made that while previously we had FYIs for "new" and "experienced/intermediate" users, that now we may need more flavors than just two. Phil said he would send a list of docs to the list with his recommendations of which should move to Historic and which others we might have to do something else with. (I don't think it is an issue to move FYIs to Historic, but I will check with the IESG.) Based on Phil's topic of "what should we do" many people had excellent suggestions for better ways of presenting information. In the past, USV has tended to do rather large documents, which are daunting to work on and even more daunting to try to update. One suggestion was to do shorter, more focused documents which would be quicker to write and easier to update, if necessary. Phil's topic led nicely to the next one. o Evolving to Dynamic Document Formats In addition to the "what should we do" question, we also asked "how shall we do it?" There was very strong support for moving away from sticking strictly to the text RFC document format, while recognizing that there was also a lot to be gained from retaining that format in parallel of anything new. RFCs, for example, are readable by everyone online and are nice hardcopies to give to areas of the world that are in the early stages of setting up Internet connectivity. However, much of today's audience will not read an online RFC; they are used to a more Web/HyperText presentation and possibly only have the attention span for smaller chunks of information. Plus, they like pictures. More to the point, they really expect pictures these days. So the group wanted to expand our presentation choices to HTML and possibly PDF; they challenge is how to attain these goals while not totally abandoning the RFC process; i.e. how to mesh the two objectives. No concrete answers to that, but new work will definitely face this challenge, starting perhaps with FYI4. In addition to this narrow question, some ideas were discussed of a broader nature. Among the suggestions for USV roles was that USWG could be a "standing committee" that would help IETFers understand some of the ins and outs, not only of the work of the Areas, but of common questions, like how best to set up a terminal room. We could present tutorials on the other Areas. USV could be like an archive resource or keep some of the institutional memory of the IETF. Also we could host a kind of "hot topic" series that was more like articles or features that did a short topic update of a current idea or trend. Also, that we could act as a "swat team" to get info together for press releases on breaking issues. Also that we could publish docs differently, possibly by having a voting mechanism on the Web for gathering consensus regarding the information presented. There were several creative ideas and a lot of energy for trying something new. o Project Isaac - Call for Collaboration Susan Calcari of the Scout Project then spoke of a new Project currently called ISAAC (but whose name may change), which is a resource discovery tool to search already established local, quality collections of resources that use metadata to describe their contents. She explained the architecture of the service and the types of collaborators they are looking for. Basically, collaborators may join as a collection node, i.e. a site that hosts a collection and describes it via metadata; or one may join as a "full node" and offer a gathered index and search interface, as well as (optionally) a resource collection. (The metadata in question here are things like "author" "title" etc. that may or may not also be present in the resource itself, but which are presented along with the resource collection in a format that can be gathered and indexed by the tools the project is using.) Current partners are SSGFI in Germany and Cornell Law's Insight project. More information can be found at http://scout.cs.wisc.edu/scout/research/ or email to scout@cs.wisc.edu. o User Services in Developing Countries Zita Wenzel, wearing her Network Startup Resource Center hat, has done some work in writing up a guide to administrative procedures of the Internet infrastructure, aimed at assisting organizations in developing countries to navigate the challenge of getting online. She basically wished to understand the role of USWG in supporting developing countries and to know if we could act as a resource in her work in this area. The group mentioned some efforts along these lines, some of which she was already aware (such as the ISOC Developing Countries Workshops). Plus, the point was made that some of the FYIs were of use to all new users, even though we had never really targeted users in developing countries specifically. At any rate, she was reassured that the group definitely had an interest in assisting efforts in this area, that the topic fell within the scope of the group, and that people would be happy to help. o Next Steps and Wrap Up Finally, we spent some time wrapping up. The action items for each topic were reiterated: Ray, Amy, Phil, Ed, Albert: FYI 4 draft by Oct 12 Phil: list of "historic" FYIs to list soon April: check re HTML RFCs and publishing in various formats; develop a draft suggestion for how to manage the FYI docs; develop a draft of what information needs to be created; develop a draft suggestion of steps re how to do the above. ------------------------------------------------------------------- April Marine GLOBE Program 1-800-858-9947 --> Help Desk NASA Ames Research Center 650-604-0762 --> me (Raytheon ITSS) amarine@globe.arc.nasa.gov IETF User Services (USV) http://archimedes.nasa.gov/usv/ Area Director From uswg-owner@ISI.EDU Tue Sep 8 12:52:14 1998 Received: from zephyr.isi.edu (zephyr.isi.edu [128.9.160.160]) by ietf.org (8.8.5/8.8.7a) with ESMTP id MAA09209 for ; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 12:52:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by zephyr.isi.edu (8.8.7/8.8.6) id JAA19644 for uswg-outgoing; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 09:00:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tnt.isi.edu (tnt.isi.edu [128.9.128.128]) by zephyr.isi.edu (8.8.7/8.8.6) with ESMTP id IAA19570 for ; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 08:59:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from archimedes.nasa.gov (archimedes.arc.nasa.gov [128.102.33.37]) by tnt.isi.edu (8.8.7/8.8.6) with ESMTP id IAA26299 for ; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 08:59:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from archimedes.nasa.gov (archimedes.arc.nasa.gov [128.102.33.37]) by archimedes.nasa.gov (8.9.1a/8.9.0) with SMTP id IAA28163 for ; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 08:59:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Time-In: 19980908155951 Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 08:59:51 -0700 (PDT) From: April Marine X-Sender: amarine@archimedes.nasa.gov To: uswg@ISI.EDU Subject: Re: FYIs to Historic? (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-uswg@ISI.EDU Precedence: bulk Here is the response to my question regarding whether it would be kosher to note some FYIs as Historic. Basically, looks like it would not be a problem. I replied that when the group got the list together, I would forward it along. fyi, April ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 08:51:56 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time) From: Steve Coya To: April Marine Cc: iesg@ietf.org Subject: Re: FYIs to Historic? Hi April, I don't see any reason why these cannot be moved to Historic. Why don't you send me the list. Steve On Thu, 3 Sep 1998, April Marine wrote: >>There is a suggestion in USWG to move certain FYI RFCs to Historic status >>(even though they are Informational). If we don't, then it is implied >>that USV is on the hook to keep them up to date. This was the original >>intention with FYIs and is still true of some, but others are just totally >>not worth the effort of updating. Yet keeping them as "current" FYIs >>implies that we back the information they contain. >> >>Would noting some FYIs as Historic break any procedures? >> >>thanks, >>April >> >>(p.s. or maybe we can create a new Status of NFYI: Not For Your Info. Or >>even better FYNI: For Your Non-Info, e.g. "fini" :-) >> >>(p.p.s. sorry about that p.s.) >> >>------------------------------------------------------------------- >>April Marine >>GLOBE Program 1-800-858-9947 --> Help Desk >>NASA Ames Research Center 650-604-0762 --> me >>(Raytheon ITSS) amarine@globe.arc.nasa.gov >> >> >> From uswg-owner@ISI.EDU Tue Sep 8 15:36:24 1998 Received: from zephyr.isi.edu (zephyr.isi.edu [128.9.160.160]) by ietf.org (8.8.5/8.8.7a) with ESMTP id PAA13562 for ; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 15:36:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by zephyr.isi.edu (8.8.7/8.8.6) id LAA27649 for uswg-outgoing; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 11:52:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tnt.isi.edu (tnt.isi.edu [128.9.128.128]) by zephyr.isi.edu (8.8.7/8.8.6) with ESMTP id LAA27644 for ; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 11:52:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from archimedes.nasa.gov (archimedes.arc.nasa.gov [128.102.33.37]) by tnt.isi.edu (8.8.7/8.8.6) with ESMTP id LAA17542 for ; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 11:52:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from archimedes.nasa.gov (archimedes.arc.nasa.gov [128.102.33.37]) by archimedes.nasa.gov (8.9.1a/8.9.0) with SMTP id LAA28396; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 11:51:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Time-In: 19980908185143 Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 11:51:43 -0700 (PDT) From: April Marine X-Sender: amarine@archimedes.nasa.gov To: Amod Karve cc: uswg@ISI.EDU Subject: Re: User Services Area Report - Chicago In-Reply-To: <001a01bdd9be$33e06700$05dfdfdf@amod> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-uswg@ISI.EDU Precedence: bulk Hi Amod! And Hi all. Thanks for your message, and sorry to be so cryptic! Amod has sent me a msg in private which highlighted that a new member of this mailing list could easily get a bit lost just reading my minutes and other messages because we tend to use terms and refer to things without a lot of background information. That, of course, is kind of usual for a mailing list, but I thought I would share my response to Amod so that if other people are swimming in the same confusion, some small bit of light could be shed. I'm not sure I succeeded in clarifying things, but for what it's worth: The charter for the working group, which explains in general terms the scope of the group, is available on the web. You have probably already looked at it, as you said. As you can see, it is a very general charter because the USWG is an umbrella group that discusses several general items that relate to user services, but that no home working group of their own. USWG in general produces documents called FYI (For Your Information) RFCs, which are a subset of the general Request for Comment series. So the RFCs you see listed on the USWG page are also FYIs, and the last one (RFC 1594) is also FYI 4. The FYI number does not change so that when a well-known document is updated, we will always know the right FYI number, even as the RFC number changes. Since there are several versions now of FYI4, we tend to use that number instead of the RFC number. At any rate, the short answer to your question is that FYI 4 is Answers to New Internet User Questions, which is currently undergoing revision. I am hoping the team working on that revision will be posting more info soon to the general list so that you can get a better idea of its specific contents and so you and everyone else can provide feedback. The other thing the group does (other than write docs) in its meetings is sometimes hear a bit about projects going on around the net that might pertain to our topic. So that is why we keep in touch with TERENA ISUS, and why other people give short talks sometimes on what they are up to (like Project Isaac at the last meeting). These things are general info, collaboration opportunities, or resource updates. While USWG does focus on information for end users, a main component of its focus is also information for people/groups who *support* end users, so our audience also includes end-user support organizations. What info will help them support users better? That kind of thing. I think you probably have a good idea of what the group is about and it is just the specifics of tying that into what we may be specifically talking about right now that can be confusing. I hope you will continue to monitor the list (which I hope will be more active) and share your ideas as they occur to you because I think you are right and that you would have an excellent perspective on these issues that we'd love to hear. A main focus will soon become better ways of presenting information to users, so feedback from your perspective on what would work in your environment would be excellent. Thanks for taking the time to ask! April On Sun, 6 Sep 1998, Amod Karve wrote: > Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1998 23:14:43 +0530 > From: Amod Karve > To: April Marine > Subject: Re: User Services Area Report - Chicago > > Hi April, > > I have been on this group for a few days now. I had visited the IETF > website and had enrolled to be on this working group. What I understood from > the site was that this group was involved in creating ideas and > methodologies to easen the process of using the internet for the end user. > > I have received a few mails via the mailing list till now but I am sorry > to say that I could not make head or tails of it. Could you please take some > time off and let me know as to what this group is all about and what kind of > activities go on in this group and where could I find relevant info. (eg. I > could not understand the term FYI4 etc.) You could consider this as a > familarization program for a newcomer. > > As I am from India (a country that is still witnessing the internet > boom) I think I would be in a position to understand the needs and kinds of > problems that an average user faces here while on the net. > > Hoping to hear from you > Amod > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- April Marine GLOBE Program 1-800-858-9947 --> Help Desk NASA Ames Research Center 650-604-0762 --> me (Raytheon ITSS) amarine@globe.arc.nasa.gov IETF User Services (USV) http://archimedes.nasa.gov/usv/ Area Director From uswg-owner@ISI.EDU Wed Sep 9 14:41:51 1998 Received: from zephyr.isi.edu (zephyr.isi.edu [128.9.160.160]) by ietf.org (8.8.5/8.8.7a) with ESMTP id OAA09671 for ; Wed, 9 Sep 1998 14:41:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by zephyr.isi.edu (8.8.7/8.8.6) id KAA14864 for uswg-outgoing; Wed, 9 Sep 1998 10:55:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tnt.isi.edu (tnt.isi.edu [128.9.128.128]) by zephyr.isi.edu (8.8.7/8.8.6) with ESMTP id KAA14859 for ; Wed, 9 Sep 1998 10:55:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gandalf.Nesser.COM (host238.2alpha.com [206.129.134.238] (may be forged)) by tnt.isi.edu (8.8.7/8.8.6) with ESMTP id KAA29105 for ; Wed, 9 Sep 1998 10:55:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pc-pjnesser (ns [206.129.134.238]) by gandalf.Nesser.COM (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id KAA23717 for ; Wed, 9 Sep 1998 10:54:41 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: From: "Philip J. Nesser II" To: Subject: FYI's to historic Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 10:49:57 -0700 Message-ID: <002801bddc1a$425ea040$0f01a8c0@pc-pjnesser.nesser.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Importance: Normal Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by zephyr.isi.edu id KAA14860 Sender: owner-uswg@ISI.EDU Precedence: bulk -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Greetings, Here is the text version of my slides for the Chicago meeting. Note that I recommend that we immediately (after discussion of course) move the FYI's that are in the out of date list to historic. Note that I am talking about the RFC, not the FYI. I would suggest that the FYI index be updated to leave the name and entry but note that no current RFC is available. - ---> Phil FYI Mission Statement From FYI #1: The FYI series of notes is designed to provide Internet users with a central repository of information about any topics which relate to the Internet. FYIs topics may range from historical memos on "Why it was was done this way" to answers to commonly asked operational questions. FYI Problems Large efforts in 92-94 timeframe Documents of “Grand Scope” Results are now largely out of date Need to address this problem What to do with out of date documents? FYI Survey In Good Shape/Current 1: Intro to the FYI Notes 8:SSH 11:X.500 Implementations Catalog-96 17:The Tao of IETF 18:Internet Users' Glossary 22:FAQ for Schools 28:Netiquette Guidelines 29:Catalogue of Net Training Materials 30:A Primer On Internet and TCP/IP Tools and Utilities 31:Humanities and Arts 32: Hobbes' Internet Timeline FYI Survey Neutral 5: Choosing a name for your computer 6:FYI on the X window system 13:Executive Intro to Dir. Services Using the X.500 Protocol 14:Tech Overview of Dir. Services Using the X.500 Protocol 24:How to Use Anonymous FTP 26:K-12 Internetworking Guidelines FYI Survey Out of Date/Needs Updating 2:FYI on a network management tool catalog 3:A bibliography of internetworking information 4:FYI on Q&A to commonly asked "New Internet User" Questions 7:FYI on Questions and Answers: Answers to commonly asked "experienced Internet user" questions 9:Who's Who in the Internet: Biographies of IAB, IESG and IRSG Members 10:There's Gold in them thar Networks! or Searching for Treasure in all the Wrong Places 12:Building a Network Information Services Infrastructure 15:Privacy and Accuracy Issues in Network Information Center Databases 16:Connecting to the Internet - What Connecting Institutions Should Anticipate 19:A Short Bibliography of Introductory Internetworking Readings 20:FYI on "What is the Internet?" 21:A Survey of Advanced Usages of X.500 23:Guide to Network Resource Tool 25:A Status Report on Networked Information Retrieval: Tools and Groups 27:Tools for DNS debugging What to Do? Move some to Historical Status Add comments to the front of the RFCs Is this possible? Rewrite them? Which ones? What forum? USWG? New WG’s? -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGPfreeware 5.5.3 for non-commercial use iQA/AwUBNfa/wzW2hWRjwTVBEQL5zwCfaflgDfZCwf7SK5AlgDcl8zPDrzkAoJXQ 2J/pebzCG5dMCbsQ6cTCGlmw =n/LN -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From uswg-owner@ISI.EDU Thu Sep 10 17:20:34 1998 Received: from zephyr.isi.edu (zephyr.isi.edu [128.9.160.160]) by ietf.org (8.8.5/8.8.7a) with ESMTP id RAA05663 for ; Thu, 10 Sep 1998 17:20:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by zephyr.isi.edu (8.8.7/8.8.6) id NAA21579 for uswg-outgoing; Thu, 10 Sep 1998 13:36:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from akamai.isi.edu (akamai-e.isi.edu [128.9.160.24]) by zephyr.isi.edu (8.8.7/8.8.6) with SMTP id NAA21574; Thu, 10 Sep 1998 13:36:44 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 13:37:32 -0700 From: jkrey@ISI.EDU Posted-Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 13:37:32 -0700 Message-Id: <199809102037.AA10222@akamai.isi.edu> Received: by akamai.isi.edu (5.65c/4.0.3-6) id ; Thu, 10 Sep 1998 13:37:32 -0700 To: usac@ISI.EDU, uswg@ISI.EDU Subject: Moving FYIs to Historic Cc: jkrey@ISI.EDU, postel@ISI.EDU Sender: owner-uswg@ISI.EDU Precedence: bulk Folks, With regards to the USV Area effort to move certain FYI RFCs to Historic status, we have a suggestion on how to proceed with this project. We suggest that new RFCs be published to replace the chosen obsoleted FYIs with a note stating that: "This FYI RFC is "obsolete" and should not be used. This material is out of date and may be misleading. Please go look at books in your local bookstores." Or perhaps USV can suggest pointers to other material that would be more appropriate for users to puruse. Joyce and --jon. From uswg-owner@ISI.EDU Thu Sep 10 19:56:52 1998 Received: from zephyr.isi.edu (zephyr.isi.edu [128.9.160.160]) by ietf.org (8.8.5/8.8.7a) with ESMTP id TAA06963 for ; Thu, 10 Sep 1998 19:56:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by zephyr.isi.edu (8.8.7/8.8.6) id QAA26366 for uswg-outgoing; Thu, 10 Sep 1998 16:34:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tnt.isi.edu (tnt.isi.edu [128.9.128.128]) by zephyr.isi.edu (8.8.7/8.8.6) with ESMTP id QAA26357 for ; Thu, 10 Sep 1998 16:33:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from archimedes.nasa.gov (archimedes.arc.nasa.gov [128.102.33.37]) by tnt.isi.edu (8.8.7/8.8.6) with ESMTP id QAA26620 for ; Thu, 10 Sep 1998 16:33:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from archimedes.nasa.gov (archimedes.arc.nasa.gov [128.102.33.37]) by archimedes.nasa.gov (8.9.1a/8.9.0) with SMTP id QAA08205; Thu, 10 Sep 1998 16:33:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Time-In: 19980910233349 Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 16:33:49 -0700 (PDT) From: April Marine X-Sender: amarine@archimedes.nasa.gov To: "Philip J. Nesser II" cc: uswg@ISI.EDU Subject: Re: FYI's to historic In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-uswg@ISI.EDU Precedence: bulk > > p.s. for newbies who may want to know where the heck to get these docs: > Check out ftp://ftp.isi.edu/in-notes/fyi/fyi-index.html . > Ooops, just noticed this index is a smidge out of date. Checked some things and not others. Site Security Handbook, for example, has been updated since RFC 1244. Still...it is a pretty good starting place. April From uswg-owner@ISI.EDU Thu Sep 10 19:57:00 1998 Received: from zephyr.isi.edu (zephyr.isi.edu [128.9.160.160]) by ietf.org (8.8.5/8.8.7a) with ESMTP id TAA06974 for ; Thu, 10 Sep 1998 19:56:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by zephyr.isi.edu (8.8.7/8.8.6) id QAA26010 for uswg-outgoing; Thu, 10 Sep 1998 16:24:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tnt.isi.edu (tnt.isi.edu [128.9.128.128]) by zephyr.isi.edu (8.8.7/8.8.6) with ESMTP id QAA26005 for ; Thu, 10 Sep 1998 16:24:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from archimedes.nasa.gov (archimedes.arc.nasa.gov [128.102.33.37]) by tnt.isi.edu (8.8.7/8.8.6) with ESMTP id QAA25072 for ; Thu, 10 Sep 1998 16:24:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from archimedes.nasa.gov (archimedes.arc.nasa.gov [128.102.33.37]) by archimedes.nasa.gov (8.9.1a/8.9.0) with SMTP id QAA08177; Thu, 10 Sep 1998 16:24:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Time-In: 19980910232437 Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 16:24:36 -0700 (PDT) From: April Marine X-Sender: amarine@archimedes.nasa.gov To: "Philip J. Nesser II" cc: uswg@ISI.EDU Subject: Re: FYI's to historic In-Reply-To: <002801bddc1a$425ea040$0f01a8c0@pc-pjnesser.nesser.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-uswg@ISI.EDU Precedence: bulk So, thanks to the RFC Editor, also known as Former Fearless Leader Joyce, we have a concrete suggestion on how to indicate that some FYIs are out of date and that we have no intention of updating them as documents. Phil has agreed to start working on some boilerplate docs to use to indicate that certain FYIs are out of date and to point to other resources as approrpriate. My question is, taking Phil's breakdown that he sent a couple days ago (oh, yesterday) (doesn't it seem like awhile ago?!), do you agree with the division? Especially, he has lumped the following FYIs into one category as "Out of Date/Need updating." While we can agree that they are out of date, it seems to me that we might update some. Which would we update and which are we essentially not going to update? > > FYI Survey > Out of Date/Needs Updating > 2:FYI on a network management tool catalog > 3:A bibliography of internetworking information > 4:FYI on Q&A to commonly asked "New Internet User" Questions > 7:FYI on Questions and Answers: Answers to commonly asked > "experienced Internet user" > questions > 9:Who's Who in the Internet: Biographies of IAB, IESG and IRSG > Members April here again: for example, FYI 9. Should we continue to do this one? Given some comments from Chicago, we might conceivably set up a web page that puts some of this introductory information online as a service to the IETF, along with capsules of what the Areas cover and what the hot topics are. Comments? > 10:There's Gold in them thar Networks! or Searching for Treasure in > all the Wrong Places > 12:Building a Network Information Services Infrastructure > 15:Privacy and Accuracy Issues in Network Information Center > Databases April again: Is this really out of date? I haven't read it lately, but my memory of it is that it has some standard do's and don't's re data privacy that were not too time particular. Of course, I may be biased or not remembering correctly or both! > 16:Connecting to the Internet - What Connecting Institutions Should > Anticipate > 19:A Short Bibliography of Introductory Internetworking Readings > 20:FYI on "What is the Internet?" Is this out of date too? > 21:A Survey of Advanced Usages of X.500 > 23:Guide to Network Resource Tools > 25:A Status Report on Networked Information Retrieval: Tools and > Groups > 27:Tools for DNS debugging Me again. Now, in this last list (which I've taken out of order of Phil's message), do you think these are all ok as is, or should some of them be booted to historical?? Like how current is that X.500 stuff, overviewish as it is? > FYI Survey > Neutral > 5: Choosing a name for your computer > 6:FYI on the X window system > 13:Executive Intro to Dir. Services Using the X.500 Protocol > 14:Tech Overview of Dir. Services Using the X.500 Protocol > 24:How to Use Anonymous FTP > 26:K-12 Internetworking Guidelines What do you think? I hope you have SOME thoughts to share! p.s. for newbies who may want to know where the heck to get these docs: Check out ftp://ftp.isi.edu/in-notes/fyi/fyi-index.html . ------------------------------------------------------------------- April Marine GLOBE Program 1-800-858-9947 --> Help Desk NASA Ames Research Center 650-604-0762 --> me (Raytheon ITSS) amarine@globe.arc.nasa.gov IETF User Services (USV) http://archimedes.nasa.gov/usv/ Area Director From uswg-owner@ISI.EDU Sat Sep 26 00:22:36 1998 Received: from zephyr.isi.edu (zephyr.isi.edu [128.9.160.160]) by ietf.org (8.8.5/8.8.7a) with ESMTP id AAA27923 for ; Sat, 26 Sep 1998 00:22:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by zephyr.isi.edu (8.8.7/8.8.6) id UAA06633 for uswg-outgoing; Fri, 25 Sep 1998 20:52:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tnt.isi.edu (tnt.isi.edu [128.9.128.128]) by zephyr.isi.edu (8.8.7/8.8.6) with ESMTP id UAA06627 for ; Fri, 25 Sep 1998 20:52:13 -0700 (PDT) From: janezxbt@carolina.net Received: from sun1.muenchen-land.baynet.de (sun1.muenchen-land.baynet.de [195.37.213.129]) by tnt.isi.edu (8.8.7/8.8.6) with ESMTP id UAA17109; Fri, 25 Sep 1998 20:52:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 195.37.213.129 (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sun1.muenchen-land.baynet.de (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id FAA29077; Sat, 26 Sep 1998 05:45:07 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from mailhost.carolina.net[alt1.carolina.net(208.9.77.65)) by carolina.net (8.8.5/8.6.5) with SMTP id GAA08396 for ; Fri, 25 Sep 1998 23:31:40 -0600 (EST) Date: Fri, 25 Sep 98 23:31:40 EST To: success@carolina.net Subject: Great Home Business Message-ID: <199702170025.GAA08056@carolina.net> Reply-To: success@carolina.net X-UIDL: 128 0. 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