Subject: [v6ops] IPv6-only mobile ISP alliance

From: Kossut Tomasz - Hurt <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2018 10:55:13 +0000

Dear All,

Any IPv6-only  mobile ISP's alliance exists?
How many ISP's already deployed IPv6-only?
How many IPv6-only mobile customers we have?

Cheers,
TK

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---

From: Alexandre Petrescu <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2018 12:15:49 +0100

> Any IPv6-only  mobile ISP's alliance exists?

I wonder the same.

I know about the "IPv6 Forum" and there they can tell.

> How many ISP's already deployed IPv6-only?

It depends what do you mean by "IPv6-only".

If by "IPv6-only" you mean the T-Mobile or Orange Poland style of 
IPv6-only smartphones, then I can say that there at least 4 mobile ISPs 
that deployed it.

But do not forget that there is no operator that transports
GTP in IPv6, even when that is for "IPv6-only" smartphones.  They
all transport in on IPv4.  That's why, for me, it is hard
to talk about "IPv6-only" mobile operators.

> How many IPv6-only mobile customers we have?

I think it is a good question that can be answered easily.  But one 
needs to do some work to ask each of the operators, and then sum it up 
and post it back here.

There will be no person on this list that can authoritatively say, e.g., 
there are 10 million IPv6-only mobile customers.

Alex

> _______________________________________________
> v6ops mailing list
> [email-masked]

---

From: Mikael Abrahamsson <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2018 12:45:29 +0100 (CET)

> How many IPv6-only mobile customers we have?

If you're by this referring to single IPv6 PDP context customers, then at 
least tens of millions, perhaps a few hundreds of millions.

https://getipv6.info/display/IPv6/3GPP+Mobile+Networks

"... IPv6-only (e.g. T-Mobile USA, Orange Poland, Telenor Norway) PDP/PDN 
bearers. "

I know at least T-Mobile USA uses this approach, and I'd imagine they have 
tens of millions of customers just there.

-- 
Mikael Abrahamsson    email: [email-masked]

---

From: Mikael Abrahamsson <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2018 12:47:07 +0100 (CET)

On Thu, 11 Jan 2018, Alexandre Petrescu wrote:

> But do not forget that there is no operator that transports GTP in IPv6, 
> even when that is for "IPv6-only" smartphones.  They all transport in on 
> IPv4.  That's why, for me, it is hard to talk about "IPv6-only" mobile 
> operators.

No, it's not. It's only you who focus on this. Everybody else (which has 
been said repeatedly) defines what the customer device sees, which means 
an IPv6 only PDP context carried over IPv4 GTP packets is defined by 
everybody (but you) as "IPv6 only".

---

From: Alexandre Petrescu <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2018 12:54:33 +0100

Le 11/01/2018 à 12:47, Mikael Abrahamsson a écrit :
>> But do not forget that there is no operator that transports GTP in 
>> IPv6, even when that is for "IPv6-only" smartphones.  They all 
>> transport in on IPv4.  That's why, for me, it is hard to talk about 
>> "IPv6-only" mobile operators.
> 

I agree that most people consider "IPv6 only" in mobile networks to mean 
IPv6 PDP Type, as opposed to the IPv4IPv6 PDP Type.

When times comes, maybe we will want to to write down a common 
definition of "IPv6 only", and then we'll see.

Alex

---

From: Ca By <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2018 16:10:10 +0000

> "... IPv6-only (e.g. T-Mobile USA, Orange Poland, Telenor Norway) PDP/PDN

464XLAT: SK Telecom, BT/EE, Bouygues France, Telsta Australia, Sprint US,
Rogers CA, T-Mobile US, Orange Poland ...

Afaik, T-Mobile US is the only one with deployed HEv2 for iPhones.  Come on
in, the water is fine.

---

From: <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2018 17:18:10 +0000

464XLAT: SK Telecom, BT/EE, Bouygues France, Telsta Australia, Sprint US, Rogers CA, T-Mobile US, Orange Poland ...

Afaik, T-Mobile US is the only one with deployed HEv2 for iPhones.  Come on in, the water is fine.

Congratulations, good work Cameron

---

From: Alexandre Petrescu <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2018 18:18:42 +0100

Le 11/01/2018 à 17:10, Ca By a écrit :
> 
> On Thu, Jan 11, 2018 at 3:45 AM Mikael Abrahamsson <[email-masked] 
> <mailto:[email-masked]>> wrote:
> 
> 464XLAT: SK Telecom, BT/EE, Bouygues France, Telsta Australia, Sprint 
> US, Rogers CA, T-Mobile US, Orange Poland ...

... also operator named "Reliance JIO" situated in India.

There must be something in Norway as well, something like 'Telenor' if I 
remember correctly, it was the first one to do true IPv6 to smartphone 
(not 464XLAT).

Some operators also still propose true IPv6 to smartphones (not 464XLAT).

> on in, the water is fine.

And Bouygues France is probably the only one who does 464XLAT only for 
Android and not for iPhones.

Alex

>     Mikael Abrahamsson    email: [email-masked] <mailto:[email-masked]>
> 
>     [email-masked] <mailto:[email-masked]>

---

From: <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2018 17:51:02 +0000

When times comes, maybe we will want to to write down a common definition of "IPv6 only", and then we'll see.

Alex, When seeking a common definition it is best to go with the one most people consider 😊

---

From: Mikael Abrahamsson <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2018 07:53:20 +0100 (CET)

> Some operators also still propose true IPv6 to smartphones (not 

Yes, there are many tens of millions of active users on IPv4v6 PDP 
contexts as well.

---

From: Tore Anderson <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2018 10:45:09 +0100

* Alexandre Petrescu <[email-masked]>

> remember correctly, it was the first one to do true IPv6 to smartphone 

«True IPv6» is a prerequisite for 464XLAT, so this statement does not
really make any sense.

That said, Telenor was not the first. I think that award might go to
Verizon Wireless in the United States. I am not certain, but they
definitively arrived earlier to the IPv6 party than Telenor did at
least.

Telenor did initially launch 464XLAT for a small number of UEs, but
this approach was abandoned in favour of dual stack. Their deployment
is currently just shy of 75% IPv6 according to my own measurements:

https://munin.fud.no/vg.no/www.vg.no/vg_ds_telenor_mobil.html

There's also another small Norwegian PLMN called Ice that has rolled
out IPv6. As far as I've been told they are also using dual stack, not
464XLAT.

Tore

---

From: Alexandre Petrescu <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2018 10:55:45 +0100

> «True IPv6» is a prerequisite for 464XLAT, so this statement does not

Ah.  I definitely have to work my vocabulary.

> Verizon Wireless in the United States.

In terms of years, IIRC, I received an invitation in year approximate 
2007 to go to Norway and try native IPv6 on mobile phone there (it was 
straight IPv6 on phone, not IPv6-in-IPv4, which was done even earlier, 
like 2001).

> I am not certain, but they

Could be.

> https://munin.fud.no/vg.no/www.vg.no/vg_ds_telenor_mobil.html

These figures are impressive, showing a majority of traffic is IPv6.  It 
is very encouraging.

> out IPv6. As far as I've been told they are also using dual stack, not

Ah, good to know, this dual stack.

ALex